What's a "Goods Vehicle"?

[BTB 500]

Hi all.

On unrestricted single and dual carriageways the speed limit for a "Goods Vehicle" below 7.5 tonnes is 10 mph lower than for a passenger car:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_610336.pdf

You'd think van hire centres would mention this as I don't think it's common knowledge - someone I know got a big shock recently when she was prosecuted for doing 61 on an unrestricted single-carriageway A road!

Anyway the question is - can anyone advise definitively when a regular panel van (Transit/Transporter/Vito size) ceases to be classed as a goods vehicle, and the higher speed limits apply?

Anecdotally, it seems to be linked to having any side windows behind the B pillar (and/or seats too?) ... but I've not seen this in writing. Is it part of the certification/documentation of a vehicle? If so, what happens if its converted later in life?

Thanks in advance

 

[Benzowner]

Not 100% sure, but I would think a goods vehicle as opposed to Transit size becomes a goods vehicle over 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight, which also brings it in line with the licensing laws. Those that have a license before 1997 can therefore drive a goods vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes those who acquired their lecenses after 1997 cannot, therefore, drive a goods vehicle without additional testing. As I started though not 100% sure.

 

[BTB 500]

Not 100% sure, but I would think a goods vehicle as opposed to Transit size becomes a goods vehicle over 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight

No, the person I know who got done for doing 61 in a normal 60 limit was driving a small panel van (Nissan Vanette) way under 3.5 tonnes.

 

[pammy]

Anyway the question is - can anyone advise definitively when a regular panel van (Transit/Transporter/Vito size) ceases to be classed as a goods vehicle, and the higher speed limits apply?

Are you suggesting that speed limits apply to White Vans I thought they were exempt from all road rules

 

[GrahamC230K]

Even a rubbish lawyer should get you off that one! Your friend that is.

 

[BTB 500]

Are you suggesting that speed limits apply to White Vans

They do when there are cops around!

 

[BTB 500]

Even a rubbish lawyer should get you off that one! Your friend that is.

How? She was speeding by 11 mph (because she was driving a 'goods vehicle'), even though she didn't realise it. Ignorance of the law can't be used as a defence.

 

[cidersurfer]

Have a look here http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.htm. If it's a car derived van less than two tonnes maximum laden weight then the same limits apply as those for a car/motorcycle. HTH

 

[Benzowner]

How? She was speeding by 11 mph (because she was driving a 'goods vehicle'), even though she didn't realise it. Ignorance of the law can't be used as a defence.

I don't think she was driving a goods vehicle, as my earlier post, but she was exceeding the speed limit. Transit vans are governed, I am sure, by the same laws as cars, so transit campers and the like can also drive at 60mph. They may have been pulled because 61 mph actual, probably showed 65+ on the speedo so the peron knew they were speeding

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

What about bentleys - they can be a bit heavy. Or Prescott's Jags (with him in, obviously)

 

[BTB 500]

If it's a car derived van less than two tonnes maximum laden weight then the same limits apply as those for a car/motorcycle. HTH

For smaller (car-derived) vans it's clear that normal limits apply. But I'm talking about panel vans in the sub-3.5 tonne class, which aren't car-based.

For example a Vito van is presumably a goods vehicle, whereas I assume a Viano (which is the same but with windows and rear seats) isn't. Same for VW Transporter and Caravelle. But what about the 'minibus' versions (M-B Traveliner, VW Shuttle)? And half-glazed versions with only one row of rear seats (M-B Dualiner, VW Kombi)?

Hence the original question - at what point does a panel van legally stop being a goods vehicle?

 

[219]

A 'single carriageway "A" road' carries a maximum limit of 60mph for any vehicle , and a lower limit of 50 mph for certain classes of vehicle (ie those towing trailers) , so the person in question would have been speeding at 61mph no matter what vehicle they were driving .

 

[BTB 500]

I don't think she was driving a goods vehicle

According to the police, she was.

Transit vans are governed, I am sure, by the same laws as cars

No, they're not. That's the whole point of this thread!

so transit campers and the like can also drive at 60mph.

Again, it's clear that at some point variants which are no longer basic panel vans cease to be classed as goods vehicles. The question is, what is that point.

They may have been pulled because 61 mph actual

I don't think you can be prosecuted for 61 mph in a 60 limit (because of the allowance for speedo error). But she was done for being 11 mph over the limit for her vehicle, anyway.

 

[BTB 500]

A 'single carriageway "A" road' carries a maximum limit of 60mph for any vehicle , and a lower limit of 50 mph for certain classes of vehicle (ie those towing trailers) , so the person in question would have been speeding at 61mph no matter what vehicle they were driving .

I realise that. But it's not an answer to my question!

 

[glojo]

I realise that. But it's not an answer to my question!

I looked onto our local constabulary web-site and this is what I found!

I recall years ago it used to stipulate that any vehicle without windows behind the drivers seat was classed as a goods carrying vehicle and was compelled to comply with goods vehicle speed limits.

Regards,
John

 

[GrahamC230K]

How? She was speeding by 11 mph (because she was driving a 'goods vehicle'), even though she didn't realise it. Ignorance of the law can't be used as a defence.

Sorry. I thought we had concluded it wasn't a goods vehicle and the driver had been done for 1mph over the limit.

 

[cidersurfer]

Nissan Vanette has a Gross Vehicle Weight of 2220kg so doesn't fit into car derived van less than 2000kg maximum laden weight category even if it is car derived. It would appear by default that they fit it into the 50mph category in Glojo's link for 'Goods vehicle NOT exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is not an articulated vehicle or car derived van'.
It's all a bit unclear and confusing though isn't it?

 

[BTB 500]

I looked onto our local constabulary web-site and this is what I found!

Many thanks John, that yielded the key phrase 'dual purpose vehicle'. I have found a definition of that as follows

Dual purpose vehicles
3. A `Dual purpose vehicle' is one that is constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passenger(s) and goods or burden of any description; and has an unladen weight (ULW) not exceeding 2,040 kg; and which either:

(a) is so constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine, is, or by the use of the appropriate controls can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or

(b) satisfies the following conditions as to construction:
(i) is permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(ii) the area to the rear of the driver's seat must:
· be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers, and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered backrests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
· be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an aggregate area of not less than 1,850cm2 on each side and not less than 770cm2 at the rear;
(iii) the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in the first paragraph of item (b) (ii) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

So basically if a panel van has at least 2 rear seats with a window on each side, it is a 'dual purpose vehicle' and normal car speed limits apply.

Exactly what I needed to know

 

[Benzowner]

So, according to Johns thread & link, she was done for 1mph over the speed limit on a dual carriageway, and should not have been recorded at 11mph over. The only difference between a car and 7.5 tonner is on a single carriageway.

 

[BTB 500]

So, according to Johns thread & link, she was done for 1mph over the speed limit on a dual carriageway, and should not have been recorded at 11mph over.

No, she was on an unrestricted single-carriageway road. So the "Goods vehicle NOT exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is not an articulated vehicle or car derived van" she was driving had a limit of 50 mph.

The only difference between a car and 7.5 tonner is on a single carriageway.

Nope. A goods vehicle up to 7.5 tonnes is restricted to 60 mph on dual carriageways, where cars can do 70.