What's the best stuff to kill rust ?

[ET4]

My 79' 280CE is popping up spots of rust in the usual areas. The main areas, sills floorpans etc, have been sorted/ replaced and waxoyled. It's just the engine bay area and a couple of other places where you don't want it to get any worse.
I'm not worried about the car being in concourse condition, I just want to keep it sweet and kill it before it goes Pete Tong. . . .

Any Ideas ????

 

[grober]

After removing the worst by sanding or wire brushing---copious amounts of Kurust liquid or gell for vertical surfaces http://www.hammerite.com/uk/products/ps_kurust.html ( halfords stock it) followed by a zinc/anti rust primer followed by a good topcoat.

 

[l5foye]

After a lot of testing of nearly all rust removers on the market (on a vintage car) I recommend BiltHammer's Detox Gel- quite expensive but it works. See bilthammer.com

 

[grober]

VERY interesting site but link should read http://www.bilthamber.com/

 

[ET4]

After a lot of testing of nearly all rust removers on the market (on a vintage car) I recommend BiltHammer's Detox Gel- quite expensive but it works. See bilthammer.com

Just been on the site and that's exactly what I'm after
No fancy advertising and false claims and recommended by a guy in the know . . . fantastic.

This site is invaluable, exactly why I joined

Cheers

 

[stever]

I also have a '79 280 CE. First job is to take back the rust to clean metal. Use an angle grinder, or at least a wire brush on a drill. If it hasn't gone through, I recommend coating with POR-15, then skim with filler (to make it level) and paint with primer/ top coat in the usual way. I did a few spots on my car in this way and so far so good.

 

[glojo]

QUESTIONS

Aren't all fillers hardened by chemical reaction? When we get rid of the rust and plop in the filler does it harden by a reaction and get hot?

Will this heat eventually cause rust or corrossion to manifest itself where the filler joins the holes?

Is cutting out the rusted area and putting in either new metal or lead a better repair?

How many members have had Mobilo repairs only to see the rust return months later?

I am asking these questions to better educate myself as at present I am a great believer in cutting out rust as opposed to using filler, but these remarks are only aimed at those that wish to keep their cars.

Regards
John

 

[Benzowner]

QUESTIONS

Aren't all fillers hardened by chemical reaction? When we get rid of the rust and plop in the filler does it harden by a reaction and get hot?

Will this heat eventually cause rust or corrossion to manifest itself where the filler joins the holes?

Is cutting out the rusted area and putting in either new metal or lead a better repair?

How many members have had Mobilo repairs only to see the rust return months later?

I am asking these questions to better educate myself as at present I am a great believer in cutting out rust as opposed to using filler, but these remarks are only aimed at those that wish to keep their cars.

Regards
John

If you cut out the rusted area and introduce a new piece of metal, that will surely need to be welded and create an awful lot of heat. Filler with accelerator will get warm not hot, unless you put too much accelerator in than it is usually hard before you get to the car

 

[stever]

QUESTIONS

Aren't all fillers hardened by chemical reaction? When we get rid of the rust and plop in the filler does it harden by a reaction and get hot?

Will this heat eventually cause rust or corrossion to manifest itself where the filler joins the holes?

Is cutting out the rusted area and putting in either new metal or lead a better repair?

How many members have had Mobilo repairs only to see the rust return months later?

I am asking these questions to better educate myself as at present I am a great believer in cutting out rust as opposed to using filler, but these remarks are only aimed at those that wish to keep their cars.

Regards
John

I only advocate the use of filler to level off after rust has been ground out - never for patching holes. I paint on POR-15 first so that the filler isn't in contact with the bare metal.

 

[glojo]

I only advocate the use of filler to level off after rust has been ground out - never for patching holes. I paint on POR-15 first so that the filler isn't in contact with the bare metal.

Thanks Stever,
I'm not out to trick anyone and am asking my questions to see if technology has improved. Many, many years ago I watched a panel beater using lead to repair panels, a skill that might not be used in a modern workshop?

Regards
John

 

[glojo]

If you cut out the rusted area and introduce a new piece of metal, that will surely need to be welded and create an awful lot of heat. Filler with accelerator will get warm not hot, unless you put too much accelerator in than it is usually hard before you get to the car

Welding will create heat but it depends on what sort of repair you want and if the rust has gone right through, in other words from the inside, out. Surface rust, or rust that has formed between the metal work and paint is one thing, but is rust that passes right through the metal a completely different repair?

Is a badly corroded front wheel wing worth all the effort and costly labour to repair, or would it be cheaper to get a new part and have a proper repair?

John

 

[stever]

Welding will create heat but it depends on what sort of repair you want and if the rust has gone right through, in other words from the inside, out. Surface rust, or rust that has formed between the metal work and paint is one thing, but is rust that passes right through the metal a completely different repair?

Is a badly corroded front wheel wing worth all the effort and costly labour to repair, or would it be cheaper to get a new part and have a proper repair?

John

I've been in this situation recently - the bootlid on my w123 was corroded, but probably salvageable. I bought a mint used one for about £100 and then had it painted for £150. I doubt a repair on the old one would have been much if any cheaper.

As I said, I reckon for surface rust, a repair is ok as long as it hasn't gone too thin you can grind the rust out. Most of the cost in this case was my own time.

 

[andy_k]

cutting out is without doubt the best option but welding new metal back in is something that should be done carefully. It's very easy to warp a panel and then you are left with an expensive fix.

Andy

 

[television]

There is a simple tell tale, if the metal sands up bright its fine, any black marks is rust and that part is no longer metal. If you cut it out, then you must go back far enough to find good metal.

Re the leading talked about by John, this started just before WW2 by Mulliner and Parkward, it came about when car makers tried to introduce alli and steel together, ie, a steel main body and an alli roof on RR and bentleys, alvis and a few other coach built cars.
fluxes have been around for years for doing this lead work and it was applied with a hot iron type tool that had a brushing effect, sadly these fluxes ate into the metal, with alli, once it has turned to powder thats the end of it. I have not heard of anyone doing this work satisfactory for years

 

[glojo]

sadly these fluxes ate into the metal, with alli, once it has turned to powder thats the end of it. I have not heard of anyone doing this work satisfactory for years

It is a skilled art and strangely enough by pure coincidence I saw it being done on Sky last night. American Hot Rod. None of the very corrosive flux though.

Spooky coincidence

John

 

[television]

It is a skilled art and strangely enough by pure coincidence I saw it being done on Sky last night. American Hot Rod. None of the very corrosive flux though.

Spooky coincidence

John

When I was in the RR club we had a guy from Mulliner demonstrate it.

Just as a piece of history, the end of Mulliner Park ward came in 1966, up to this time they made the bodies for the RR and bentley also Alvis. in 1966 RR brought out their first in house mono coupe body, this put Mulliner up for sale and it was acquired by BMC and was knwn as motorboddies in the change over from British leyland, this left Alvis with no one to build their bodies so they ceased making motor car with the TF21 being the last early 67.

Another bit of history is the fact that S smith made car clocks and instruments while Lucas made lighting sets.

I am I think the only person in the world who knows why as its never been published. In 1975 I interviewed the soul survivor who was 99 years old and have it on a 1 hour long tape transcript. I must do something with it before I snuff it.

 

[vanisle]

rust

the most effective from my experiance is:
Pro Form PF 785 rust converter

 

[recycled]

saw something on wheeler dealers whch ed china used a liquid to turn surface rust in to good metal with a chemical reaction on an mx5
has anyone tried this?

 

[IainB]

Ive heard some VERY good things about the POR products.
http://www.frost.co.uk/result_search.asp?keyword=POR15
Havent tried them myself, but friends have and now swear by them, im intending to do the chassis / rollcage of the dragster with them - so they better work!!

Couple of 'How To's' here http://www.frost.co.uk/how_do_i.asp

 

[stevesey]

Lead Loading is still used heavily by "proper" car restorers. Read plenty about it when I had an MGB. Plently of "how too"s out there if you google.

In answer to the original question - physical removal is always better than chemical products - used chemical ones years ago, but these days it's angle grinder, a variety of wire brush attachments and vary sharp pointed bit of tool steel for attacking stone chips.