Whats your strategy for year 2030 / ban of ICE vehicles?

[Swotty]

Not getting enough attention?

Oh, the irony.

 

[Wolfie1]

Apparently there are around 40m cars in the UK, and half a million caravans. So just over 1% of motorists tow a caravan. Can we not find a solution for this small group? Perhaps they should be exempt from ICE punitive measures until EV tech catches-up. And I don't see a risk of this becoming a loophole, I.e. how many people will actually buy a caravan for no other reason than to pay less VED on their ICE cars or to be exempt from congestion charging etc? Unlikely.

This is exactly what i said, depending if you meet a certain criteria you dont need to have an electric car

 

[Alfie]

I don't think you followed my posts fully... I agree that having a public charger "within half a mile" is as good a solution as a chocolate teapot.

But lamppost charging in locations where residents do not live in houses with drives is a different matter. In the UK, lampposts are typically spaced 30m to 50m apart, and with a typical parking bay being around 4m long, less some kerb areas with single or double yellow lines, you're looking at probably around 5 to 7 cars per lamppost.

Again, with a typical charging regime most EVs will be charged every other week. So this will really not be a problem.

However, admittedly lamppost charging at current isn't widely available, and there may issues - commercial or technical - why it might not work in some place.

Each lamp post though can only charge two vehicles maximum concurrently and that assumes both vehicles park such that each can reach the post. Imagine the scenario where owners were dragging long cables past other vehicles to get to the post? The risks and problems with this are significant.

 

[Alfie]

Apparently there are around 40m cars in the UK, and half a million caravans. So just over 1% of motorists tow a caravan. Can we not find a solution for this small group? Perhaps they should be exempt from ICE punitive measures until EV tech catches-up. And I don't see a risk of this becoming a loophole, I.e. how many people will actually buy a caravan for no other reason than to pay less VED on their ICE cars or to be exempt from congestion charging etc? Unlikely.

Depends on the definition of Caravan. I recall my earlier motorcycling years where learners had big engined bikes because they had what looked like a sprung stabiliser on the bike but was in fact deemed a side car!

 

[KennyN]

I recall my earlier motorcycling years where learners had big engined bikes because they had what looked like a sprung stabiliser on the bike but was in fact deemed a side car!

They were called SideWinders and the third wheel used to lean with the bike , back in the day it was funny seeing a GS750 with L plates.

Sidewinder learner sidecar

'Sidewinder, the lean machine'

reddevilmotors.blogspot.com

K

 

[Alfie]

I said before that I have a feeling that some of those opposing EVs in general are in fact simply (and often rightly) concerned about the negative impact that EVs will have on them in their particular circumstances. And, they don't believe that the authorities will take any notice of their plight in the rush to rid our roads of ICE cars. Which in turn leads them to objecting to EVs in general even when for many other people EVs make perfect sense.

My objections to them are that they simply are not viable yet, too expensive and in the main(few exceptions) ugly.

Once I can replace an ICE car with something comparable in terms of convenience and cost I’ll do it. I like the idea of near zero maintenance.

 

[Alfie]

I would add that I have no objection to anyone owning one for whatever reasons they choose. If it works for them, then great. It doesnt work for me yet. Maybe it will maybe it wont.

What I object to is the ‘vegan’ argument. Great, be a vegan if you want but dont try and force it upon others. I dont need to know you are a vegan within 30 seconds of meeting you.

 

[clk320x]

A prime example of why so many people I know and work with think EV’s are not for them. Incredibly dire and spartan vehicle that has absolutely no kerb appeal whatsoever. Gives the so hated local transport another chance though

This was an example of a cheap & cheerful EV for £7k…

Plenty of EVs have ‘kerb appeal’ and mind-boggling torque/acceleration. For example the new Model S plaid with it’s 1.9s 0-60

 

[markjay]

Each lamp post though can only charge two vehicles maximum concurrently and that assumes both vehicles park such that each can reach the post. Imagine the scenario where owners were dragging long cables past other vehicles to get to the post? The risks and problems with this are significant.

Lamppost charging works fine for me, but it's far from perfect. In my street, each lamppost has just one socket. Tesla seem to be using long thin charging cables, which means the cars are more flexible in respect of the proximity to the charger, while my IONIQ 5 has a much shorter and thicker cable (about 5m), and so I have to park right next to the lampost. I am guessing this is because the IONIQ 5 has an 800V battery and the potential for fast 350kW charging, though personally I would have preferred to have an optional longer and thinner cable that only supports slower charging. Additionally, bizarrely many EVs come with a charging port that imitates a fuel filler flap, and while some manufacturers located the flap on the LH side (Jaguar, Tesla) others located it on the RH side (Hyundai, BMW), and even though in most cases you can park on the other side of the road, this is again a less flexible solution for UK drivers when parking parallel to the pavement due to the 2m of cable length that are waisted on getting the cable to the far side of the car. Why the fake fuel flap? Is this the modern equivalent of the QWERTY keyboard? BTW, some manufacturers placed the charging point at the centre of the front or the rear of the car, which is also a good solution.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I smile when I read comments that “tax payers must foot the bill” especially when it’s implied that those who can least afford have no choice but to meet the cost. I’ve copied/pasted this from a previous thread (my words) but it illustrates a point.

During the period that the average person’s children are being educated, I suspect that they don’t pay enough income tax to cover the cost of their children’s education, nevermind contribute towards the cost providing any other public services.

I believe that the cost of educating a primary school child is currently around £5,000 per annum. To pay £5,000 in income tax, one must earn £37,500 per annum.

The average person has two-ish children, and when those children are in secondary school the cost increases to £6,500 per annum. The average family will have children in education for almost 20 years. The average income in the UK is £30,420 per annum.

It costs £85k to educate a child to the age of 18, so the average family with two children will cost £170k. It would take someone earning the average salary 48 years to pay enough income tax to meet the cost of their children’s education, before contributing a penny towards other public services. Around the time they retire.

The above is over simplified as it ignores other forms of taxation beyond income tax, and it is also ignores any benefits. However I believe the phrase “tax payer” is generally considered to be those paying income tax.

It also ignores inflation but in the basis that salaries and costs can be reasonable assumed to rise at a similar rate then inflation is neutralised in the final calculation.

I don’t have the time or inclination to look more deeply into it however I strongly suspect that the average person in the UK take out more from the “system” than they pay in (in the form of income tax).

Well put. To add to that, the more you earn, the more you contribute (in tax as a percentage of your income) and the less you take from the system.

 

[markjay]

I don’t have the time or inclination to look more deeply into it however I strongly suspect that the average person in the UK take out more from the “system” than they pay in (in the form of income tax).

You're probably tight:

Top 1% of earners in UK account for more than a third of income tax

Tax revenues ever more reliant on small group of high earners, says Institute for Fiscal Studies

www.theguardian.com

And that's from The Guardian...

 

[Swotty]

This was an example of a cheap & cheerful EV for £7k…

Plenty of EVs have ‘kerb appeal’ and mind-boggling torque/acceleration. For example the new Model S plaid with it’s 1.9s 0-60

How much freedom will there be to wring performance out of our vehicles once the obligatory black boxes have been fitted, though? Will speed/acceleration automatically be limited?

 

[Deleted member 159894]

How much freedom will there be to wring performance out of our vehicles once the obligatory black boxes have been fitted, though? Will speed/acceleration automatically be limited?

What obligatory black boxes?

 

[markjay]

How much freedom will there be to wring performance out of our vehicles once the obligatory black boxes have been fitted, though? Will speed/acceleration automatically be limited?

I think that any measures that may be taken by the government to monitor or restrict cars' use or performance, will apply equally to all new cars sold in the UK, EVs or ICE, and will probably be in line with any EU regulations in this area.

 

[190]

Well put. To add to that, the more you earn, the more you contribute (in tax as a percentage of your income) and the less you take from the system.

The tax system has become increasingly lenient on those with low income. I imagine most of the 12 million in retirement pay no or little income tax. A couple can have an income of £25,140 before paying a penny in income tax and with smart investing it's possible to stretch that to £30,000 or more. For home owners outside London and the South East that's a comfortable income. I pay only a few hundred pounds per year in retirement but I was high rate tax payer once so I've done my bit.

There is no escape from others taxes though. Council tax which can be as high as £3700 will be the biggest tax contribution for most in retirement.

 

[del320]

What obligatory black boxes?

Instead of your usual "innocent" question, why not Google it? You've got the time!

 

[Deleted member 159894]

Instead of your usual "innocent" question, why not Google it? You've got the time!

Deleted, don’t have that much time.

 

[Gollom]

There is a new battery type which eliminates the need for Cobalt… who knows what’s next around the corner?

Said it before - if I had any spare cash I'd sure as hell invest in some of the battery tech companies. There must be a step-change around the corner surely

 

[markjay]

The tax system has become increasingly lenient on those with low income. I imagine most of the 12 million in retirement pay no or little income tax. A couple can have an income of £25,140 before paying a penny in income tax and with smart investing it's possible to stretch that to £30,000 or more. For home owners outside London and the South East that's a comfortable income. I pay only a few hundred pounds per year in retirement but I was high rate tax payer once so I've done my bit.

There is no escape from others taxes though. Council tax which can be as high as £3700 will be the biggest tax contribution for most in retirement.

There also VAT and various Duties (fuel, alcohol, etc).

 

[davymead]

This was an example of a cheap & cheerful EV for £7k…

Plenty of EVs have ‘kerb appeal’ and mind-boggling torque/acceleration. For example the new Model S plaid with it’s 1.9s 0-60

A couple of years back I drove a good friend and neighbours brand new Model S around the Island and was undeniably impressed. Staggeringly quick and impressively good to drive it cost him a smidge under £100,000 with his chosen spec. IMO that vehicle IS worth that kind of money and I understand the reasons behind his choice.