Wheel wobble - again !!

[c13tay]

I know this has been covered before but probably looking fo a little re-assurance. No problems with the original 10 holes.

Just put a set of 17" style 2s on my 1998 C240 elegance.

Got up to about 60ish on the motorway and a huge wobble started - so bad that I immediately slowed down.

went to my local tyre place - he said is itthe steering wheel you feel it or through the seat. I said both really.

He balanced all 4 wheels and sold me a part worn tyre too cos the rear nearside had an egg on the inside !!!!

drove out and all felt well ............. untill I got on motorway again.

It is no way as bad but is still bad enough. Going to go to a different tyre place again tonight and have them balanced again. hard to tell but it feels like its coming mainly from the passenger side front wheel. To be honest it feels like there is a huge flat spot on the tyre but the fitter said they were ok?

Ill get em balanced again tonight and see what is what. Assume this could be a tyre fault, a buckled wheel or they have just been balanced incorrectly

any other ideas ???


thanks

Chris

 

[khimani_mohiki]

im currently having the same issues with my wheels, slight vibrations at certain speeds. I think different places balance them in different ways, some more effective than others. The balancing machines usually centre on the wheel bore with a tapered spindle, wheras on your car although it should be centered by the hub, the tapered seats on the wheel bolts may influence the exact position of the wheel causing it to be slightly off balance. I found that applying copper grease to the bolt seats helped. Maybe take it to mercedes, they may use a more specific balancing machine since all their vehicles use the same stud pattern and bore.

 

[NormanC]

Maybe take it to mercedes, they may use a more specific balancing machine since all their vehicles use the same stud pattern and bore.

I'd be very surprised if Mercedes fit/balance tyres themselves as it's uneconomic use of a fitter and they don't stock tyres. I'm certain that they'll just take them to a tyre specialist.

 

[jonnymerc]

hi c13 could be a wheel bearing, i had a similar problem on a citroen c4 good luck

 

[c13tay]

thought about wheel bearing but no play there, it passed mot yesterday and no wobble with old wheels on


chris

 

[chris846]

having a very similar experience with my 2000 clk320 (which is a c class under the skin). It had a bad wobble at 65-70mph, which indicates wheel balance. Had them balanced, some improvement but still bad. Swapped all the wheels round, this altered things but the wobble was still there. Replaced the worn steering linkage and the completely shagged steering damper (this on a 70,000 mile car!!). Replaced a knackered ball joint. This has improved it a great deal, but it still likes to wobble a bit over joints in the road and at 65mph. Put different rims & brand new tyres on - no difference. I'm certain that wheel balance is the root cause, because it happens at 65mph, but there's no way that any other car I've ever owned and worked on has been this susceptible to it. The front upper control arm inboard bushes seem way too soft, so they're next for replacement. At this stage I think the car/suspension geometry/layout/poor quality components just makes it over sensitive to slightly out of balance wheels.

 

[jaymanek]

Its basically either the tyre or the wheel... If the wheel, it could be buckled, but in this case it will be very difficult to balance. If its the tyre that has a flat spot then this could be the issue.

 

[c13tay]

Update

Had the 17inch alloys re-balanced - things feel a little better but still not right.

Borrowed a set of alloys - still vibrating but not as bad.

So have now tried 3 sets of wheels / tyres and there is still a vibration there although to a greater / lesser extent depending on which alloys are fitted - worst with the 17s on !!!

To be honest it actually feels as if there is something loose at the front pasenger side or the tyre has a big flat spot - its more of a vibration than a wobble if you know what i mean. Seems to be felt throught the car rather than just the steering wheel.

Had a good look around while wheels were off - no obvioius signs of a broken spring or anything loose though

any ideas ??? Should probably change title to "car vibration" rather than wheel wobble !!!!

Might have to go introduce myself to Ian at 124 Works with this one !!!!!

thanks

Chris

 

[camerafodder]

Take it to 124Works Chris. You seem to have exhausted the wheel balance issue quite comprehensively! I would be looking at linkages, ball joints, tracking, other steering linkages, wheel bearings etc...

Also I know this sounds a bit daft but is it definitely coming throught the steering? Long shot this but a propshaft out of balance or with worn UJ's can cause some pretty unpleasant vibration that can seem to come from the strangest of places

 

[c13tay]

Camerafodder

Agree, am starting to think this may be coming from somewhere else and did think about prop but not sure how this could come "out of balance"

For info the car is a 1998 C240 - one owner from new - FSH and only 59K on the clock !!!

Must admit a few times when backing onto drive ive heard a bit of a clunk from the passenger side front as the wheel mounts the drive but cant see anything amiss

whatever it is it is exaggerated by having the 17inch rims on !!! with the standard 15inch rims on it isnt too bad but still there (may just be that the vibration is being absorbed by the higher profile tyres ???

also with the 15s on the vibration only seems to come it at about 75mph but with the 17s it comes in at 65ish

thought about a warped disc too

As said in my first post, it passed MOT last week so shouldnt be anything covered by the test

Chris

 

[camerafodder]

Propshafts are balanced at the factory by having little tabs spot welded to them. The only usually become unbalanced if a tab flies off or the shaft gets bent or more usually due to a worn UJ. Not sure what kind of flexible joints you have on yours but I'm sure others will be along soon who know more than I.

 

[c13tay]

Thanks again

Im convinved its something to do with front end - after having wheels balanced again it did improve, alot !! Im swaying towards something to do with front hub / suspension / steering.

As ive said in a previous post, on the passenger side there is a little play in the steering ie if I hold wheel at 3 and 9 oclock, i can feel movement and see track rod moving (not sure if this is normal or not)

Its very hard to describe these symptoms but it does feel as if something is loose at front passenger side and at high speed the vibration feels as if I have a flat spot on the tyre. since wheels balanced im feeling it more through the car rather than the steering wheel


Chris

 

[Alex Argent]

Might be worth getting Ian to change the prop shaft doughnuts anyway for what they cost. These do have a habit of wearing on W202's, and any imbalance would certainly lead to the entire car vibrating, as opposed to just the front end.

I had this problem on a previously owned C240.

 

[c13tay]

had another good look, prod and general feel around with the wheels off tonight and can find anything loose etc

really bugging me now so have made contact with Ian at 124 Works and work permitting will be having a run up there next week

whatever it is it is a lot worse with the 17s on so stuck the 15s back on for now as it is just about bearable with these on

what could be wrong that would show up more with the 17s on ???? ....... or it it just that the higher profile tyres on the 15s just hide it more or the lower profiles on the 17s make it feel worse ???

got lots of other things to do to this car including some rusty arches but got to resolve this first !!!!!

cheers


Chris

 

[vijilants]

I had near enough the same problem with my 17s...vibration at speed.

I took it to three different places for balancing and on each occasion I told them to keep the existing weights on and check the balance. On every occasion they said the balancing was out. The third place managed to balance the wheels properly and no problems since.

Please note that there are an awful lot of places out there with msicalibrated kit and also some of it can also be down to human error.

 

[c13tay]

Thanks desilva

Ill try getting em balanced again but am starting to shy away from this being the fault

Tried 3 different sets of alloys now and the problem is there on all of them to a greater or lesser extent......... much worse with the 17s


Chris

 

[vijilants]

Thanks desilva

Ill try getting em balanced again but am starting to shy away from this being the fault

Tried 3 different sets of alloys now and the problem is there on all of them to a greater or lesser extent......... much worse with the 17s


Chris

Next time you take it somewhere else, explain the problem and ask them to leave the existing weights on and check it......it would be interesting to know the result.

 

[WDB124066]

Apart from wheels and tyres check brake disks/hub, hub seating surface, steering box/rack with too much play, bushes and ball joints, steering links, pitman arm if you have one, steering damper, shock absorbers, wheel bearings. All will cause the same effect - a little in each all adds up.

You are spot on re wheel balancing shops, I have said it before and I will say it again, go where the Porsches, new Mercs, Ferrari's, Astons and other high speed high priced newer cars go, because they will usually have the right equipment, right down to the titanium sockets for the Porsches. Do not waste your money going anywhere else as it will be lottery if you get it done correctly. Inspect the shop before you spend the money, take a look at the machine and ask them how old it is and when it was last independently calibrated - blank face tells a lot.

When they spin the wheel take a close look at the run out on the tyre OD and side wall as well as the rim.

Balance weights come off if they use the wrong ones they interfere with the static parts of the car, and rub off. In general, use clip on not stick on weights, they are more sensitive & tend to perform better.

There are a bunch of things with the wheels and tyres to check, but from your work so far it appears they are not the main contributor.

I had a problem on the Stag many years ago, it was runout on the OD of the rear brake drums, had them machined, problem solved.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.......

 

[kurtdaley]

had another good look, prod and general feel around with the wheels off tonight and can find anything loose etc

really bugging me now so have made contact with Ian at 124 Works and work permitting will be having a run up there next week

whatever it is it is a lot worse with the 17s on so stuck the 15s back on for now as it is just about bearable with these on

what could be wrong that would show up more with the 17s on ???? ....... or it it just that the higher profile tyres on the 15s just hide it more or the lower profiles on the 17s make it feel worse ???

got lots of other things to do to this car including some rusty arches but got to resolve this first !!!!!

cheers


Chris

My cousin had some 18 inch wheels fitted on his CLK and when we left the wheel place there was like a grinding noise coming from the wheels.
We went back and they said they hadn't put the correct wheel nuts on.
They put some different ones on and voila the car was fine.
Don't know if they were messing with us or not but it seemed to solve it.
Would different wheel nuts affect it though, I'm not too sure.
Kurt

 

[Shane10010]

Hi,

Just been reading this thrad with great interest as I am running the same 17" Aero II's which have been balanced twice. The car has also just passed it's MOT and I asked that they be very critical of teh suspension parts but apparently no issues.

My vibration was greatly improved the second time around but what is there now is evident from 65 up and doesn't go away. I checked the UJ's or my case, flex discs and they are fine. My dad came in teh car with me the other day and suggested it may be the centre carrier bearing so I will check that today.

If all else fails I will take it to a different tyre shop and ask that they check everything.

Update to follow.
Shane