When talent runs out..

[st13phil]

What constitutes 'serious' though?

My comment was partially tongue in cheek. The cases that get the most investigation seem - anecdotally, at least - to be the ones where someone is trying to avoid a £100 and 3 points FPN for "blasting" through a speed camera at 35mph when the limit is 30.

Less tongue in cheek, in answer to your "what constitutes serious" question, I would suggest that anything that involves a pursuit where there's evidence of dangerous driving, or an incident where an injury collision has occurred, would be classified as serious. I'm sure there would be others.

 

[Scott_F]

What constitutes 'serious' though?
No sign of the other traffic light GP racer being apprehended and the drink driving would have gone unnoticed (had he not rolled it) and escaped the pursuit. Is fleeing a pursuit serious enough to warrant further identification enquiries? And what would they be? Witness statements? Interrogation of his phone? In the former possibly expecting a family member or friend to testify against him, the latter, circumstantial and contestable?

If the driver was the registered keeper and managed to get away then typically the next step is to call the police and report the car "stolen".

 

[c63chris]

But he could have avoided everything he was charged/convicted for by failing to identify himself as the driver and taking 6 points instead (had he not rolled it but escaped the pursuit).

Happened to my brother. Knocked of his bike by a car. The owner reported it stolen and it was found abandoned not far from the scene. My brother ID’d the owner as the driver. He denied it. Police didn’t want to know.

 

[Bellow]

If the driver was the registered keeper and managed to get away then typically the next step is to call the police and report the car "stolen".

Happened to my brother. Knocked of his bike by a car. The owner reported it stolen and it was found abandoned not far from the scene. My brother ID’d the owner as the driver. He denied it. Police didn’t want to know.

In both cases, reporting car as stolen seriously ramps up the criminality level - to avoid 6 points - lunacy. If you can take the 6 points, all you have to do is refuse to identify the driver. It then falls on the police to provide evidence of driver identity or the case goes nowhere.
Half of a prosecution is identifying the alleged perpetrator (obvious really, getting the right man/woman in the dock) after that it's down to proving their guilt. Without the former nothing happens.
I know this because a solicitor drummed it into me! It's also why I detest reg plates with bastardised character spacing - if the vehicle can't even be identified, there's little chance its driver will be.

 

[Scott_F]

In both cases, reporting car as stolen seriously ramps up the criminality level - to avoid 6 points - lunacy. If you can take the 6 points, all you have to do is refuse to identify the driver. It then falls on the police to provide evidence of driver identity or the case goes nowhere.

It obviously depends on the circumstances but this case involves a speeding, disqualified drunk driver who fled from the police and caused a serious accident so the level of criminality is already extremely high. There would therefore be an obvious incentive to report the car stolen had he been able to leave the scene.

 

[markjay]

If the driver was the registered keeper and managed to get away then typically the next step is to call the police and report the car "stolen".

Some years ago I witnessed a vehicle crash into a parked car, and then two young men got out of it and fled on foot running down the road.

I called the police who responded very quickly and told me that they managed to pick-up both men not too far away.

The police also told me that one of the men dialled 999 and reported the car stolen a few minutes after the crash... and they later asked if I could identify the men, which I could not as I was too far away.

So I think think they may have gotten away with it.

 

[Bellow]

Surely, all the police have to do is fingerprint the steering wheel, other controls and handles, to show the last hands in contact were the owners. Or does a clever-**** lawyer argue that the car can be stolen without touching anything (lifted onto a flat bed I suppose).

I had a motorcycle go missing and reported it stolen. Nipped out to the off-licence and on the way back found the bike behind a wall, 'Friends' had shifted it for me. Police arrived before I could let them know I'd found it and that it hadn't actually been stolen. At which point they asked me if this was the first time I'd done this - 'fictitiously reported a vehicle stolen to claim compensation from my insurers'. WTF? Took a bit of sorting out.

 

[whitenemesis]

Surely, all the police have to do is fingerprint the steering wheel, other controls and handles, to show the last hands in contact were the owners. Or does clever-**** lawyer argue that the car can be stolen without touching anything (lifted onto flat bed i suppose).

Thief was wearing gloves M'lud ...

 

[markjay]

Surely, all the police have to do is fingerprint the steering wheel, other controls and handles, to show the last hands in contact were the owners. Or does a clever-**** lawyer argue that the car can be stolen without touching anything (lifted onto a flat bed I suppose)....

The police told me that without positive identification this will be difficult to prove, because the men admitted to having driven the car up to shortly before it was 'stolen' (it was their car) and so their fingerprints and DNA are expected to be found in the car. The only way to prove it was them who drove the car while it crashed is if there was a witness of who could identify the driver, which unfortunately I was unable to do.

I suppose that CCTV footage would have been another way, but I don't think that there's any on that stretch of road.

 

[219]

Surely, all the police have to do is fingerprint the steering wheel, other controls and handles, to show the last hands in contact were the owners. Or does a clever-**** lawyer argue that the car can be stolen without touching anything (lifted onto a flat bed I suppose).

I had a motorcycle go missing and reported it stolen. Nipped out to the off-licence and on the way back found the bike behind a wall, 'Friends' had shifted it for me. Police arrived before I could let them know I'd found it and that it hadn't actually been stolen. At which point they asked me if this was the first time I'd done this - 'fictitiously reported a vehicle stolen to claim compensation from my insurers'. WTF? Took a bit of sorting out.

Sadly , you never get fingerprints off a steering wheel , best bet , usually is interior mirror or window glass .

 

[219]

The police told me that without positive identification this will be difficult to prove, because the men admitted to having driven the car up to shortly before it was 'stolen' (it was their car) and so their fingerprints and DNA are expected to be found in the car. The only way to prove it was them who drove the car while it crashed is if there was a witness of who could identify the driver, which unfortunately I was unable to do.

I suppose that CCTV footage would have been another way, but I don't think that there's any on that stretch of road.

Injuries , and seatbelt bruising can be quite compelling evidence , after a crash . Also clothing can transfer fibres into the seatbelt wading . Airbag , if deployed , burns can be quite telling - if chummy says he was in another crash , challenge him to identify the other vehicle ...

 

[Bellow]

Sadly , you never get fingerprints off a steering wheel , best bet , usually is interior mirror or window glass .

Where they wouldn't be expected to be smudged/overwritten by a thief.
I always thought reporting stolen when it wasn't was a fast track to jail. Evidently not!

 

[Bellow]

Thief was wearing gloves M'lud ...

Shades of OJ Simpson there I think.... Always the gloves.....

 

[markjay]

Where they wouldn't be expected to be smudged/overwritten by a thief.
I always thought reporting stolen when it wasn't was a fast track to jail. Evidently not!

Only if caught...

 

[Scott_F]

I always thought reporting stolen when it wasn't was a fast track to jail. Evidently not!

With a rap sheet like the driver in this instance you may as well add Perverting the Course of Justice to the list and chance your luck as you're going to prison anyway.

 

[Bellow]

Only if caught...

I guess that's the difference between the criminal mind and law abiding. The former doesn't expect to get caught, the latter does. I'll never forget an expression I heard describing the inmates of a jail - 'all of them, made a bad decision'.

With a rap sheet like the driver in this instance you may as well add Perverting the Course of Justice to the list and chance your luck as you're going to prison anyway.

True, when you're in that deep - in for a penny and all that.

 

[219]

Injuries , and seatbelt bruising can be quite compelling evidence , after a crash . Also clothing can transfer fibres into the seatbelt wading . Airbag , if deployed , burns can be quite telling - if chummy says he was in another crash , challenge him to identify the other vehicle ...

Oh , and further to that , if an airbag is deployed , DNA will usually be transferred onto it from skin cells , blood , saliva , nasal mucus , all of which can only be from the person in the car at the time of the crash .

Such evidence is highly persistent, and can usually still be recovered , even if the car is set on fire in an attempt to destroy it .

 

[219]

Shades of OJ Simpson there I think.... Always the gloves.....

Glove prints can sometimes be taken .

Just sometimes.

 

[markjay]

Oh , and further to that , if an airbag is deployed , DNA will usually be transferred onto it from skin cells , blood , saliva , nasal mucus , all of which can only be from the person in the car at the time of the crash .

Such evidence is highly persistent, and can usually still be recovered , even if the car is set on fire in an attempt to destroy it .

I suppose that you can't argue with DNA found on deployed airbag, it's bound to be the driver's............

 

[Pharrel]

"jailed for 26 months and banned from driving for four years."

I'd argue it should be a permanent driving ban.