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They're already dead. Chip Chop told me.
Covid-19 Discussion
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They're already dead. Chip Chop told me.
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One of the - perhaps unsurprising - features of this pandemic is that the level of scientific knowledge about the SARS-CoV-2 virus continues to as increase significantly, even though there are still massive gaps in our knowledge. Two key features of the disease are the disparate rates of infection that have occurred in different countries and also the different mortality rates in different populations.
When the pandemic first started, it was assumed that everyone was equally likely to become infected and that mortality rates were pretty high. Based on that, pretty much every country adopted an ultra-cautious approach of isolation and degrees of lockdown, however as the disease has progressed there is a growing body of evidence that genetic factors have a high degree of correlation with both susceptibility to the disease and the eventual outcome of an infection. In other words, we're not all equally likely to become infected, and the outcome of infection varies dramatically from being totally asymptomatic to a very uncomfortable death from multiple organ failure.
It increasingly appears that some people have varying levels of natural immunity to infection with SARS-CoV-2, most likely because they were previously infected with other coronaviruses that cause the common cold. A good article on that here: T cells found in coronavirus patients ‘bode well’ for long-term immunity | Science
This potential for natural immunity could have far reaching consequences for how we exit lockdown, and indeed whether or not lockdowns had any material influence on the overall progression of the virus. Professor Karl Friston, a statistician with significant expertise in understanding complex and dynamic biological processes by representing them in mathematical models, postulates that, for example, the huge difference between observed outcomes thus far in the UK and Germany is not primarily an effect of different government actions (such as better testing and earlier lockdowns) but is better explained by intrinsic differences between the populations that make the “susceptible population” in Germany (i.e. the group proportion of the population vulnerable to Covid-19) much smaller than that in the UK.
There's an article which discusses this here: Karl Friston: up to 80% not even susceptible to Covid-19 - UnHerd
Lots of food for thought.
When the pandemic first started, it was assumed that everyone was equally likely to become infected and that mortality rates were pretty high. Based on that, pretty much every country adopted an ultra-cautious approach of isolation and degrees of lockdown, however as the disease has progressed there is a growing body of evidence that genetic factors have a high degree of correlation with both susceptibility to the disease and the eventual outcome of an infection. In other words, we're not all equally likely to become infected, and the outcome of infection varies dramatically from being totally asymptomatic to a very uncomfortable death from multiple organ failure.
It increasingly appears that some people have varying levels of natural immunity to infection with SARS-CoV-2, most likely because they were previously infected with other coronaviruses that cause the common cold. A good article on that here: T cells found in coronavirus patients ‘bode well’ for long-term immunity | Science
This potential for natural immunity could have far reaching consequences for how we exit lockdown, and indeed whether or not lockdowns had any material influence on the overall progression of the virus. Professor Karl Friston, a statistician with significant expertise in understanding complex and dynamic biological processes by representing them in mathematical models, postulates that, for example, the huge difference between observed outcomes thus far in the UK and Germany is not primarily an effect of different government actions (such as better testing and earlier lockdowns) but is better explained by intrinsic differences between the populations that make the “susceptible population” in Germany (i.e. the group proportion of the population vulnerable to Covid-19) much smaller than that in the UK.
There's an article which discusses this here: Karl Friston: up to 80% not even susceptible to Covid-19 - UnHerd
Lots of food for thought.
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As I said, I don't disagree with the principle you described, and BTW I am a Psychologist by training (though not a practicing one), so do have some familiarity of these, and I can even add reference to research that showed that in a controlled experiment rats suffered heart failure under extreme mental and physical stress conditions.
But we'll just have to agree to disagree regarding the impact that any government-induced false fears may have had on the number of recorded COVID-19-related deaths in this pandemic.
True, which is why comparing the number of recorded deaths between different countries is meaningless.
Absolutely, and the millions of Russian citizens who perished in Stalingrad are just one example, but I don't follow the connection to the COVID-19 pandemic? Or are you suggesting that on top of the COVID-19-related deaths, many of the non-COVID-19-related deaths should actually be (indirectly) attributed to COVID-19? If so then this claim is confusing, because nearly everyone else seem to claim the opposite, i.e. that the official 'died with COVID-19' records actually exaggerate the number of fatalities because they include people who died with, but not from, the disease. At any rate there's another thread about that, started by BTB 500: COVID-19 ... impact on death rates | OT (OFF Topic) Forums , perhaps we should continue this over there.
British Prime Minister Channels Churchill As He Surrenders To Gates And The Vaccine Cartel
by John Stone This is the moment of national humiliation that we somehow did not see on our television sets last night: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson surrendering to Bill Gates and the vaccine cartel, GAVI, hailed by him as...
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British Prime Minister Channels Churchill As He Surrenders To Gates And The Vaccine Cartel
by John Stone This is the moment of national humiliation that we somehow did not see on our television sets last night: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson surrendering to Bill Gates and the vaccine cartel, GAVI, hailed by him as...www.ageofautism.com
"British Prime Minister Boris Johnson....... while he speaks from a nation on its knees like Vichy France."
Ouch. This article isn't going to go down well with the British public. I guess we're not much liked by by some across the pond....
I think we're not liked by many across the pond. At best we're seen as 'quaint' or 'quirky'. To many in the US, the U.K. is defined by Benny Hill and Monty Python.
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Also from the article:
"LifeSite's Paul Smeaton delivered a petition with over 567,000 signatures, urging politicians to reject mandatory vaccination for the coronavirus. Nearly 60,000 signatures came from the UK, alone."
I haven't been watching the daily COVID-19 press briefings lately, when has mandatory vaccination been proposed?
"LifeSite's Paul Smeaton delivered a petition with over 567,000 signatures, urging politicians to reject mandatory vaccination for the coronavirus. Nearly 60,000 signatures came from the UK, alone."
I haven't been watching the daily COVID-19 press briefings lately, when has mandatory vaccination been proposed?
ChipChop
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The UK government would never need to openly propose mandatory vaccinations as they have a media who can exert all the pressure they require to make being vaccinated appear to be the right thing to do.
And it may be the right thing to do, but only if you are in an at risk group imho. Just like the seasonal flu/ influenza vaccine.
Not much talk of at risk groups when in comes to SARS-coV-2 though. I wonder why?
And it may be the right thing to do, but only if you are in an at risk group imho. Just like the seasonal flu/ influenza vaccine.
Not much talk of at risk groups when in comes to SARS-coV-2 though. I wonder why?
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If the vaccine is only a given % effective then vaccination of the wider population gives significantly more protection to those who are vulnerable.
In the past we have been used o the idea that you need vaccinations to cross some borders - eg. yellow fever. With bird flu a few years ago (H1N5?) there was talk about requiring proof of vaccination to enter some countries.
There is the issue of commercial requirements for vaccination - eg. a condition of travel insurance or of employment.
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This is interesting... hinted by who? And in what way? An Act of Parliament that makes invasive medical treatment mandatory will indeed constitute a seismic shift in this country's tradition of personal freedoms.
ChipChop
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What you are saying seems logical but for seasonal flu/ influenza only at risk groups are given vaccinations not the majority who are not at risk. Even with this established vaccination process more people die of seasonal influenza/ flu than SARS coV-2.
What would be the justification for the not at risk groups to be vaccinated?
Vaccination to cross borders is country specific and to my knowledge based on UK government High Consequence Infectious Disease risks per country.
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Take a look around at empty city centres, empty office car parks, closed shops.
Seasonal flu doesn't do that.
I thought I sort of explained that in my post - a vaccine only % effective gives much greater protection to the vulnerable groups if everybody gets it.
It's not what the UK requires but what other countries require that would be a driver - just as it has been for other vaccinations at various times and places.
Arriving in a tropical country it used to be normal to have an onboard announcement at some destinations about specific vacinations (yellow fever was a common example) deopending whre you had been recently. And you had a warning on immigration cards about it too.
We may find that Aus and NZ decide on mainatining 14 day quarantine/isolation for vistors - but logically they might well waive that requirement for arrivals who have been vaccinated or have had an antibody test.
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Also, if I understand correctly, then the article suggests that the arrest of the German paedophile last week was in fact orchestrated by Bill Gates in order to distract the gullible UK public from his COVID-19-related evil plans.
As odd as it may sound, I have no issue with this article. Yes, it is purposely offensive to us Brits, and the authors clearly don't think very highly of us, but on the plus side it puts forward its theories without trying to support them with fake or deliberately-misleading evidence. I may not accept their views and theories, but they most certainly have the right to publish them to whoever may be interested.
As odd as it may sound, I have no issue with this article. Yes, it is purposely offensive to us Brits, and the authors clearly don't think very highly of us, but on the plus side it puts forward its theories without trying to support them with fake or deliberately-misleading evidence. I may not accept their views and theories, but they most certainly have the right to publish them to whoever may be interested.
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I don't know about SARS, but I was receiving medical treatments during 2009/2010 which made me vulnerable at the time, and Swine Flu was regularly discussed with myself and other patients. Luckily I only caught it much later during the second wave in 2011, by which time my immune system have sufficiently recovered to deal with it. Re SARS, the initial outbreak was in 2003 I believe, hasn't it gone by now? Is it still circulating in some countries?
You can’t still be saying that! The latest figures on excess deaths is now over 60,000, which has not been seen for Influenza at any recent point.
ChipChop
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On your first point. The streets are empty because of a quarantine policy. Not because a virus has made everyone ill. In fact very few people are ill.
Why do you expect the not at risk (the majority) to give up there own rights to protect the vulnerable group? Where is the precedent for this in the UK?
If you are going to be vaccinated for travel to some exotic destination with known health risks this will be carried out at home before you travel, hence my reference to the UK HCID.
ChipChop
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Well i am glad you got through it MJ to fight another day.
SARS-coV-2 is the name of the virus, the disease is C-19 sorry for the confusion.
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Thank you for your kind words and for the correction.
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