Covid-19 Discussion

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Big Janner said:
No, it spreads as a result of flea bites
Lets just hope that no infected rodents are onboard the hundreds of ships arriving in European (I include the UK here, as we are part of europe) ports every week.

It may not be a viral infection, but, it is easily spread and an evil way to die
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GeeJayW said:
It can I think also (currently) be treated with antibiotics.
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Bubonic plague isn't the killer it once was, providing one get treatment.
It's now thought humans spread the Black Death, not rats
www.bbc.co.uk

Black Death 'spread by humans not rats'

Human body lice, rather than rat fleas, spread plague during the Black Death, a study simulating the outbreak suggests.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
An interesting video from 2017 examining the role public-private partnerships are playing in global health. The WHO's complete lack of transparency is explored.

www.c-span.org

Chelsea Clinton and Devi Sridhar Discuss <em>Governing Global Health</em>

Chelsea Clinton and Devi Sridhar talked about their book [Governing Global Health: Who Runs the World and Why?], in which they examine the role public-private partnerships are playing in improving global health. Ms. Clinton and Ms. Sridhar said that these partnerships were significant to...
www.c-span.org www.c-span.org
 
ChipChop said:
President Trump has formally withdrawn the USA from the World Health Organisation effective 6th July 2020. At last someone is holding the unaccountable to account.

www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: Trump moves to pull US out of World Health Organization

The president follows up his vow to leave the world health body by formally notifying the UN.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Not surprising, given that his motto 'America First' always advocated withdrawal from everything and anything. Agreements with Iran, Russia, etc, and he is even complaining about his allies in NATO. If it was down to him, America would be the solitary bully who intimidates everyone else, and partners with no one.
 
whitenemesis said:
This may change a few 'safety recommendations' ...
www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: WHO rethinking how Covid-19 spreads in air

The WHO has acknowledged there is evidence that Covid-19 can be spread by airborne particles.
www.bbc.co.uk
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So, potentially that's all bars, restaurants, most shops and public transport screwed then.

The crucial facts we're all missing are a benchmark as to the level of risk that a particular situation poses and the relative risk in other scenarios. While that's understandable to an extent, it’s extremely damaging, and to my mind an absolute priority bearing in mind we're all going to have to coexist with this virus for some considerable time.

“Maybe's“ do nothing other than scare the populace and increase the indirect damage being caused by this virus.
 
st13phil said:
So, potentially that's all bars, restaurants, most shops and public transport screwed then.

The crucial facts we're all missing are a benchmark as to the level of risk that a particular situation poses and the relative risk in other scenarios. While that's understandable to an extent, it’s extremely damaging, and to my mind an absolute priority bearing in mind we're all going to have to coexist with this virus for some considerable time.

“Maybe's“ do nothing other than scare the populace and increase the indirect damage being caused by this virus.
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The 200+ scientists pushing this airborne particle virus theory presumably take the risk to travel to their labs to carry out this work whilst dodging the airborne virus particles.

Anyone remember the scientist sketch on the Fast Show? Farcical.
 
wwwnc.cdc.gov

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China
wwwnc.cdc.gov wwwnc.cdc.gov

This is an interesting report of how one asymptomatic patient managed to infect further 70 people between 19th March and 22nd April, through a single use of the lift in the building where the patient was staying in 14-day isolation.
 
markjay said:
wwwnc.cdc.gov

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China
wwwnc.cdc.gov wwwnc.cdc.gov

This is an interesting report of how one asymptomatic patient managed to infect further 70 people between 19th March and 22nd April, through a single use of the lift in the building where the patient was staying in 14-day isolation.
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Surprising that in China they let Covid -19 infectious patients wander around a hospital, infecting 28 other people. In the UK infectious & tropical disease wards are secure.
 
ChipChop said:
Surprising that in China they let Covid -19 infectious patients wander around a hospital, infecting 28 other people. In the UK infectious & tropical disease wards are secure.
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The patient was in hospital for non-COVID-related medical issue (stroke), and wasn't treated as a COVID-19 patient. Even if you test everyone admitted to hospital, it still takes a couple of days for the results to come through. What do you do with the patient in the meantime? Put them in the non-COVID ward, where they might infect others? Or put them in the COVID isolation unit, where they might get infected? Tough decision. And one which is not limited to Chinese hospitals.
 
markjay said:
As well as workplaces planning on resuming safe office work. Not to mention airlines and hotels....
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Precisely. Which is why gaining a good handle on the risk posed by different activities / locations / environments and what mitigations really have any practical benefit is an urgent imperative. The hazard (in terms of the effect of the illness on an individual) based largely upon demographics and prior medical conditions is becoming better understood, but without good information on the risk profile that "normal" human activities represent none of us are able to make a rational and reasonable judgement as to whether to undertake any particular activity.

I accept that it's neither practical nor ethical to deliberately expose people to an infection that can result in death or permanently diminish the rest of their life, and thus "control group" experiments can't be undertaken in the most rigorous ways, but the constant "this might be a transmission mechanism, we've no real evidence to back up that view, but nevertheless it might be" narrative is unhelpful.
 
st13phil said:
Precisely. Which is why gaining a good handle on the risk posed by different activities / locations / environments and what mitigations really have any practical benefit is an urgent imperative. The hazard (in terms of the effect of the illness on an individual) based largely upon demographics and prior medical conditions is becoming better understood, but without good information on the risk profile that "normal" human activities represent none of us are able to make a rational and reasonable judgement as to whether to undertake any particular activity.

I accept that it's neither practical nor ethical to deliberately expose people to an infection that can result in death or permanently diminish the rest of their life, and thus "control group" experiments can't be undertaken in the most rigorous ways, but the constant "this might be a transmission mechanism, we've no real evidence to back up that view, but nevertheless it might be" narrative is unhelpful.
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With regards to what mitigations really have any practical benefit the obvious push at the moment is promoting mask wearing (WHO revised advice, Tom Hanks etc).

You can even make your own at home apparently.

To me this bit of advice is as useful as being told by a garage that you can make yourself a new air filter for your Mercedes using a pair of old socks or the Mrs old tights.
 
whitenemesis said:
This may change a few 'safety recommendations' ...
www.bbc.co.uk

Coronavirus: WHO rethinking how Covid-19 spreads in air

The WHO has acknowledged there is evidence that Covid-19 can be spread by airborne particles.
www.bbc.co.uk
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It has been *widely* assumed for a while that it is transmitted through the air - aerosol or droplets.

This was being talked about in detail back in February - with speculation even then that the virus was shed from the upper respiratory tract and spread through the air.

This is one of the reasons that singing in places like churches has been suspended.

The question is how infectious is it in aerosol mode. You could have a tube carriage with virus in the air but not actually enough to to make the chances of being infected that high. So one person unsuspectingly infects the carriage. A thousand people enter and leave it - and maybe only one ends up being infected.

Conversely you could have a situation similar to the choir in Washington state. An unsuspecting person sings in a tube carriage and sheds a lot more virus. A thousand people enter and leave it - but 20 people who were in the vicinity of the singing when it happened get the virus.

We're now at July heading through the fourth month since the UK lockdown was announced and it seems to be that policy is still based on guesses.

There really sould be more firmer answers by now.

One of the problems demonstrated with this pandemic is that something happens - and then eventually the WHO is expected to pronounce on the obvious.
 
Dryce said:
We're now at July heading through the fourth month since the UK lockdown was announced and it seems to be that policy is still based on guesses.

There really sould be more firmer answers by now.
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My point exactly.
Dryce said:
One of the problems demonstrated with this pandemic is that something happens - and then eventually the WHO is expected to pronounce on the obvious.
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Justifying their existence?
 
markjay said:
The patient was in hospital for non-COVID-related medical issue (stroke), and wasn't treated as a COVID-19 patient. Even if you test everyone admitted to hospital, it still takes a couple of days for the results to come through. What do you do with the patient in the meantime? Put them in the non-COVID ward, where they might infect others? Or put them in the COVID isolation unit, where they might get infected? Tough decision. And one which is not limited to Chinese hospitals.
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Back in early March our local hospitals were treating anybody coming in untested as potential Covid. Then only moving them on to the Covid free wards after tests. My understanding is the tests were repeated and took hours not days - but that three negative tests were required to move somebody to a non-Covid ward.

I suspect that some of that early outcry about testing and capacity by the media was being confused with the allocation of that capacity and its prioritisation within hospitals aroubd the country for the above purpose.
 
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