Where has this Disaster Originated?

ChipChop

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"This is it. We are now, give or take, at the absolute limit of how much we can reopen society without a resurgence of coronavirus.

This realisation at the heart of government is about more than delaying the opening of bowling alleys, it will define our lives for months to come - and probably until we have a vaccine."


History however gives us the following Influenza vaccine effectiveness statistics, courtesy of Public health England

2017-2018 - overall effectiveness 15%
2016-2017 - overall effectiveness 39.8%
2015-2016 - overall effectiveness 52.4%


Despite the above low historical effectiveness % figures and the fact that no one can have any notion of a potential Covid-19 vaccines effectiveness yet, when the many candidates are still in trials and will be for a long time yet, we are given this carrot & stick routine until a vaccine arrives. The inference being a vaccine is the solution to stopping a coronavirus spread. The annual flu/influenza vaccine does not stop that Coronavirus spread.

The notion of lockdown and restriction until a vaccine arrives is deeply flawed.
 

markjay

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I listened this evening to a talk given by Prof Robert Winston.

He is neither an epidemiologist not a virologyst, obviously, but he had some interesting things to say about COVID-19:

- What is almost unique about SARS-Cov-2 is that it is infectious before patients become symptomatic, which makes it very difficult to stop its spread (hence the wide-reaching social distancing rules)

- All technology carries risks, but the most dangerous technology ever invented is the airplane, because if its ability to quickly transport humans and pathogens across the world. The second most dangerous were the sail ships that transported rats carrying the Plague from the far East to Europe.

- When told that in a poll 14% of people said they would not get the vaccine once it was available, he said it was 'balmy' not to get vaccinated against a disease that can kill you (but then he's 80, and I suspect that many of those who said they will refuse the vaccine are young people, who generally don't seem to care much about COVID-19)
 

merc85

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quote- When told that in a poll 14% of people said they would not get the vaccine once it was available, he said it was 'balmy' not to get vaccinated against a disease that can kill you (but then he's 80, and I suspect that many of those who said they will refuse the vaccine are young people, who generally don't seem to care much about COVID-19)

99.74% don't die though.
 
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ChipChop

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- All technology carries risks, but the most dangerous technology ever invented is the airplane, because if its ability to quickly transport humans and pathogens across the world. The second most dangerous were the sail ships that transported rats carrying the Plague from the far East to Europe.
Globalism and open borders does indeed have a lot to answer for. The Lancet recognised this in this article about Chloroquine/ Hydroxychloroquine in 2003. I Quote...

"Chloroquine is a 9-aminoquinoline known since 1934. Apart from its well-known antimalarial effects, the drug has interesting biochemical properties that might be applied against some viral infections. Chloroquine exerts direct antiviral effects, inhibiting pH-dependent steps of the replication of several viruses including members of the flaviviruses, retroviruses, and coronaviruses. Its best-studied effects are those against HIV replication, which are being tested in clinical trials.
We review the available information on the effects of chloroquine on viral infections, raising the question of whether this old drug may experience a revival in the clinical management of viral diseases such as AIDS and severe acute respiratory syndrome, which afflict mankind in the era of globalisation."

 
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markjay

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So the question is how do we retain the benefits that we have from freedom of movement and globalisation, without exposing ourselves to repeated viral infections?

One way to go about it would be to have some form of 'immunisation passport', but at current it seems that the Luddites won't have it. So we're back to square one.
 

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So the question is how do we retain the benefits that we have from freedom of movement and globalisation, without exposing ourselves to repeated viral infections?

One way to go about it would be to have some form of 'immunisation passport', but at current it seems that the Luddites won't have it. So we're back to square one.
When we landed in the Galapagos the whole plane (including passengers) and our luggage was fumigated before we were allowed to deplane.
Perhaps we need something like this, obviously more sophisticated...
 

ChipChop

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When we landed in the Galapagos the whole plane (including passengers) and our luggage was fumigated before we were allowed to deplane.
Perhaps we need something like this, obviously more sophisticated...
Practical solutions like this make perfect sense.

However just imagine if President Trump suggested such a practical solution (like he did with sunlight, disinfectant & hydroxychloroquine), the left wing loonies would be up in arms. Fumigation of humans! Is he insane. Mad world.
 
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markjay

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When we landed in the Galapagos the whole plane (including passengers) and our luggage was fumigated before we were allowed to deplane.
Perhaps we need something like this, obviously more sophisticated...
Same when I used to fly to Accra and Abidjan.... only difference was that the fumigation took place once the passengers boarded, the doors were closed, and the aircraft was ready for take-off... the BA staff assured us that the aerosol spray was 'harmless'...
 

markjay

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Practical solutions like this make perfect sense.

However just imagine if President Trump suggested such a practical solution (like he did with sunlight, disinfectant & hydroxychloroquine), the left wing loonies anyone who knows anything about medicine or science would be up in arms. Fumigation of humans! Is he insane. Mad world.
FTFY :thumb:
 

ChipChop

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"Anyone who knows anything about medicine or science"

WHO would that be then? ;)

Awaits a list of revisionists who dispute the anti-viral properties of sunlight, disinfectants & hydroxychloroquine.
 

ChipChop

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Is it only a matter of time before someone suggests using a "Sheep Dip" for Humans? :rolleyes: :oops::eek:
The World Economic Forum's CoviPass, a proposed immunity passport, requires you to give a blood sample and surprise surprise pay a mandatory carbon offset tax for air travel.

So their version of a "Sheep Dip" requires you give them your DNA and some cash.

Data & Dosh.
 
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markjay

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"Anyone who knows anything about medicine or science"

WHO would that be then? ;)

Awaits a list of revisionists who dispute the anti-viral properties of sunlight, disinfectants & hydroxychloroquine.
...when used internally??? You're joking, right?

Show me one person with 1 year Or more of medical training that thinks it's a good idea and I'll concede defeat.

BTW, after having been universally ridiculed, Trump quickly retracted what he said, with a bizarre explanation that he was just 'trying' the journalist, and that he knew all along that what he said makes no sense.

In light of that, perhaps you would like to review your position on what Trump said?

Also, where is this coming from? Are you supporting Trump? On anti-vaxxing? Or what? It is odd that you would try and defend a piece of nonsense that even Trump retracted. What's your motive in fighting your corner to the end on this one? I find it very hard to believe that you actually support the nonsense about ingesting disinfectant and sunlight. So where is this coming from?
 

markjay

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The World Economic Forum's CoviPass, a proposed immunity passport, requires you to give a blood sample and surprise surprise pay a mandatory carbon offset tax for air travel.

So their version of a "Sheep Dip" requires you give them your DNA and some cash.

Data & Dosh.
Sure. If it keeps us all safe, I have no issue with that. As far as I am concerned, anyone who wishes to board a busy plane and refuses to submit themselves to health checks to ensure the safety of their fellow passengers, can just stay at home.

You wouldn't want anyone boarding your plane without having been checked for weapons and explosives. Why would you let someone on the plane who might be carrying a contagious and deadly virus?

I really can't understand the rationale behind refusing to be tested for SARS-Cov-2 and yet insisting on attending crowded places - it's irresponsible and selfish behavior.
 

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...when used internally??? You're joking, right?

Show me one person with 1 year Or more of medical training that thinks it's a good idea and I'll concede defeat.

BTW, after having been universally ridiculed, Trump quickly retracted what he said, with a bizarre explanation that he was just 'trying' the journalist, and that he knew all along that what he said makes no sense.

In light of that, perhaps you would like to review your position on what Trump said?

Also, where is this coming from? Are you supporting Trump? On anti-vaxxing? Or what? It is odd that you would try and defend a piece of nonsense that even Trump retracted. What's your motive in fighting your corner to the end on this one? I find it very hard to believe that you actually support the nonsense about ingesting disinfectant and sunlight. So where is this coming from?
He's just trolling the forum, has been at it for months.
 

ChipChop

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...when used internally??? You're joking, right?

Show me one person with 1 year Or more of medical training that thinks it's a good idea and I'll concede defeat.

BTW, after having been universally ridiculed, Trump quickly retracted what he said, with a bizarre explanation that he was just 'trying' the journalist, and that he knew all along that what he said makes no sense.

In light of that, perhaps you would like to review your position on what Trump said?

Also, where is this coming from? Are you supporting Trump? On anti-vaxxing? Or what? It is odd that you would try and defend a piece of nonsense that even Trump retracted. What's your motive in fighting your corner to the end on this one? I find it very hard to believe that you actually support the nonsense about ingesting disinfectant and sunlight. So where is this coming from?
Wow that is a lot of question marks in a single post. Are they the same as exclaimation marks? The BBC fact checkers would have something to say about that.;)

I care not what the media in La La land say Trump said because everyone knows their job is to distort and report without context. Lets be clear he never advised anyone to drink bleach.

Try speaking to a medical professional instead and they will explain the anti-viral properties of sunlight, disinfectants & hydroxychloroquin. Practical solutions to prevent the spread of a coronavirus are what is needed not media gibberish.
 

markjay

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Wow that is a lot of question marks in a single post. Are they the same as exclaimation marks? The BBC fact checkers would have something to say about that.;)

I care not what the media in La La land say Trump said because everyone knows their job is to distort and report without context. Lets be clear he never advised anyone to drink bleach.

Try speaking to a medical professional instead and they will explain the anti-viral properties of sunlight, disinfectants & hydroxychloroquin. Practical solutions to prevent the spread of a coronavirus are what is needed not media gibberish.
Simple question... do you support/approve of Trump's original statement regarding use of disinfectant and sunlight 'inside the body'? The statement he retracted the following day? Just wondering where you stand on this.
 

ChipChop

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Sure. If it keeps us all safe, I have no issue with that. As far as I am concerned, anyone who wishes to board a busy plane and refuses to submit themselves to health checks to ensure the safety of their fellow passengers, can just stay at home.

You wouldn't want anyone boarding your plane without having been checked for weapons and explosives. Why would you let someone on the plane who might be carrying a contagious and deadly virus?

I really can't understand the rationale behind refusing to be tested for SARS-Cov-2 and yet insisting on attending crowded places - it's irresponsible and selfish behavior.
But it does not keep us all safe.

There has always been a myriad of contact and airborne highly infectious diseases circulating the globe at any one time. SARS-Cov-2 is not even classified as an HCID so is the least of our worries. A situation exacerbated by globalism and open borders.

Pragmatism would be of great help right now but it seems sadly lacking.
 
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ChipChop

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Simple question... do you support/approve of Trump's original statement regarding use of disinfectant and sunlight 'inside the body'? The statement he retracted the following day? Just wondering where you stand on this.
President Trump did not tell people to drink disinfectant as you well know. End of.

(Everything he says is on the internet so put the footage up of him telling people to drink bleach if you are so convinced this is true.)
 
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