Covid-19 Discussion

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markjay said:
From memory, what was discussed in the initial COVID-19 press briefing was achieving herd immunity through a managed process of restrictions (not a complete lock down) that will be gradually imposed 'at the right time.
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What was said at that media briefing was significantly misinterpreted.

What was said was (along the lines of) that there would be a managed process of restrictions, imposed at the appropriate time, to as far as possible ensure that the rate of infections didn't overwhelm the health care system, a byproduct of which would be that a level of herd immunity would start to build.

This was spun by sections of the media as "Evil and/or incompetent (delete as applicable) government, urged by their satanic adviser (Cummings), adopt major infection strategy with mass deaths of the weak and frail considered as acceptable collateral damage". Which the records have shown was a complete and utter lie. But as I've said before, a lie is half way around the world before the truth gets its boots on.
 
grober said:
While things have markedly improved now the debate on the inadequacy of even present day arrangements continues as restrictions are eased and the new systems are finally put to the test
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There isn't much hard information to debate.

I listened to the news about Ms Sturgeon's pronouncement on mandatory use of face masks in shops and the questions that came to mind were.

Why now and not earlier? What do they know now that they didn't before (and if so tell us)?​
Is there evidence of transmission in shops?​
And if shops why not the workplace?​

I think there is an issue with presentation. The politicians might be rightly concerned with elaboarting on the data they use (or they select to use) in their decision making. The media and opponents will jump on them. On the other hand if they are issuing mandatory instructions to the public then they are beholden to explain.

I think the government (and the regional administations in Wales, NI, and Scotland) have a responsibility to be very clear about what transmission mechanisms they are actually seeing - and not just generalise.
 
I think you will find that the majority of what NS says is either something that servers a political agenda, or is an attempt to try and embarrass BJ. She's a very political animal.
 
markjay said:
I think you will find that the majority of what NS says is either something that servers a political agenda, or is an attempt to try and embarrass BJ. She's a very political animal.
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Absolutely. If anyone is trying to score political points in all of this, it's her.
 
markjay said:
I think you will find that the majority of what NS says is either something that servers a political agenda, or is an attempt to try and embarrass BJ. She's a very political animal.
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The face masks in shops thing is an odd one though.

She referred to contact tracing. But didn't back it up with any figures about likely transmission in shops - or any figures about contact tracing.

Supermarkets are an interesting laboratory if they can collect some infection statistics on staff and some general numbers of shoppers over the last three months.
 
Dryce said:
The face masks in shops thing is an odd one though.

She referred to contact tracing. But didn't back it up with any figures about likely transmission in shops - or any figures about contact tracing.

Supermarkets are an interesting laboratory if they can collect some infection statistics on staff and some general numbers of shoppers over the last three months.
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Anecdotal evidence shows that all the staff are still present and correct at all the local supermarkets i shop in.

Was it not the World Health Organisation who changed direction on face masks in early June 2020 citing new research commisioned by the U.N. health agency as the reason. Details are very vague on what this new research was but this is the way the WHO works. Unaccountable.

Even Chelsea Clinton and Devi Sridhar pull no punches when discussing the WHO's reputation for lack of transparency. Devi Sridhar by the way is advising the Scottish government on Covid-19.

Chelsea Clinton and Devi Sridhar Discuss <em>Governing Global Health</em>
 
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ChipChop said:
Anecdotal evidence shows that all the staff are still present and correct at all the local supermarkets i shop in.
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I've made a point of asking checkout ladies in several supermarkets if they are all well and have been told there hasn't been a single member of staff that's caught the virus. Small sample of course.

It's not just the SNP that are so obviously choosing to be different, so are the the Welsh and NI. Amazing that politicians will play games with something so important.
 
190 said:
I've made a point of asking checkout ladies in several supermarkets if they are all well and have been told there hasn't been a single member of staff that's caught the virus. Small sample of course.
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I always ask checkout staff if they and all their colleagues are ok, before thanking them for continuing to work. I always get the same response: everyone's still fine, thanks. And this is in a superstore supermarket that’s always busy and has a large number of staff picking throughout the day for click & collect and delivery orders.

A good friend is a delivery driver for a local Sainsbury’s which is also a large, very busy, store and he tells me that to date they’ve had no infections amongst their staff.

All anecdotal and relatively small samples, but it covers the two biggest supermarkets in a town of about 40,000 people.
 
190 said:
It's not just the SNP that are so obviously choosing to be different, so are the the Welsh and NI. Amazing that politicians will play games with something so important.
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these nobodies are grasping onto their 15 minutes of fame. Pathetic.
 
On the subject of infection rates, the below article has a chart at the bottom showing infection rates per local authority, per week. Getting visibility of this data seems an excellent tool for understanding what’s going on in each local area. Maybe this data will start to be widely available in something close to real time and allow people to adapt behaviour as infection rates move up and down. Obviously there could be many drivers of changes in the data (different levels of testing available, etc), but areas with 100x the infection rate of other areas are very likely to actually have higher COVID incidence.

I note that there are many Welsh LAs with very high incidences, which does lend some credence to the Welsh government’s cautious approach to easing lockdown. Unless my geography is awry I can’t see Scottish LAs with high numbers on the list, which does seem to support the view that their different approach is more political than practical.

Leicester outbreak timeline: Who knew what, and when?
 
SW18 said:
Leicester outbreak timeline: Who knew what, and when?
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The narrative seems to entirely exclude any details of the outbreaks - just numbers.

That's what really concerns me. If we know that the outbreaks are centred around - for example specific factories or industry types - or specific economic or social activities - or care homes and hospitals - or events - then we get a better idea of what is going on.

Instead the LAs and government seem to be very coy about saying anything. I think that's a mistake. I can see there may be reasons to try and avoid stigmatising anybody but I think this whole situation is too big and costly to dance around the niceties - we need to be open.
 
C240Sport97 said:
although infection numbers are important, hospital admission numbers are key IMO
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The British Medical Journal estimates in Leicester there are between 6-10 hospital admissions a day compared with just 1 per day in other UK health trusts. The curve has been well and truly flattened.

www.bmj.com

Covid-19: Leicester placed under lockdown after spike in cases and hospital admissions

Leicester, a city in England’s East Midlands, has been placed under local lockdown measures because of a rising number of covid-19 cases, the government has announced. Speaking in the House of Commons on 29 June, health secretary Matt Hancock said that the area accounted for around 10% of all...
www.bmj.com www.bmj.com
 
Well well well,

Its Here, another speculation which has come true

www.covipass.com

COVI-PASS™ | USAGE - COVI-PASS

COVI-PASS™ is a secure Digital Biometric Health Passport powered by VCode to assist in the fight against Covid-19. Return to Work, Return to Life - Safely.
www.covipass.com www.covipass.com
 
merc85 said:
Well well well,

Its Here, another speculation which has come true

www.covipass.com

COVI-PASS™ | USAGE - COVI-PASS

COVI-PASS™ is a secure Digital Biometric Health Passport powered by VCode to assist in the fight against Covid-19. Return to Work, Return to Life - Safely.
www.covipass.com www.covipass.com
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Didn't know about this one, looks promising though:

healthcare-in-europe.com

Sold: 50 million digital health passports

A British cyber security company, VST Enterprises has signed a contract with international digital health technology firm Circle Pass Enterprises (CPE), owner of ‘Covi-Pass’, to supply 50 million of its ‘digital health passports’ to 15 countries.
healthcare-in-europe.com healthcare-in-europe.com

It's a shame though that we needed to have COVID-19 in order to come-up with this idea, why didn't they do it years ago? Much better than the hand-written paper vaccination book that I used to have to present when traveling for work to West African destinations. I am assuming that in time it will cover all tests and vaccinations, i.e. not just COVID-19?
 
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