Covid-19 Discussion

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I’m not one fir all this conspiracy malarke, this virus is real and can be a killer however we must now learn to live with it.
If that means booking a table at the pub as opposed to a pub crawl then so be it.
If it means wearing a mask and using hand gel before entering a premise then so be it.
If it means having reduced attendances in stadiums and theatres with extra costs then so be it.
If it means going back into the office for your 8 hour day then so be it.

The current restrictions aren’t living never mind living with the virus
 
Harrythedog said:
I’m not one fir all this conspiracy malarke, this virus is real and can be a killer however we must now learn to live with it.
If that means booking a table at the pub as opposed to a pub crawl then so be it.
If it means wearing a mask and using hand gel before entering a premise then so be it.
If it means having reduced attendances in stadiums and theatres with extra costs then so be it.
If it means going back into the office for your 8 hour day then so be it.

The current restrictions aren’t living never mind living with the virus
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The current restrictions are in place because too many people refused to adhere to the very simple and very reasonable measures that you mentioned in your very sensible post.

In fact, some people object to them on this very thread.
 
The exponential rise in new cases is a worry but for me the only data I will trust is Hospital admissions and we should follow Belgium in adopting this measure.

The NHS data seems to be getting more up to date which is not before time. I produced the graph of daily hospital admissions from an XL file on this web page. Statistics » COVID-19 Hospital Activity

Can anyone argue we don't have a problem when covid-19 hospital admissions are rising at this rate. They may not be dying at a high rate but it's still serious.

Covid.JPG
 
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190 said:
The exponential rise in new cases is a worry but for me the only data I will trust is Hospital admissions and we should follow Belgium in adopting this measure.

The NHS data seems to be getting more up to date which is not before time. I produced the graph of daily hospital admissions from an XL file on this web page. Statistics » COVID-19 Hospital Activity

Can anyone argue we don't have a problem when covid-19 hospital admissions are rising at this rate. They may not be dying at a high rate but it's still serious.

View attachment 102629
Click to expand...

There'll be an 'explanation' coming.... wait for it.

Anything and everything apart from accepting that we have a spreading infection.
 
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190 said:
The exponential rise in new cases is a worry but for me the only data I will trust is Hospital admissions and we should follow Belgium in adopting this measure.

The NHS data seems to be getting more up to date which is not before time. I produced the graph of daily hospital admissions from an XL file on this web page. Statistics » COVID-19 Hospital Activity

Can anyone argue we don't have a problem when covid-19 hospital admissions are rising at this rate. They may not be dying at a high rate but it's still serious.

View attachment 102629
Click to expand...
It looks very much like Covid-19 or Sars Cov-2 is a seasonal pathogen. The rise in numbers you are showing is not exponential, it is linear. They are a tiny percentage (2% or 3000-4000 out of 200,000 people) of the normal cases of seasonal pathogens that happen at this time of year.

Flu/ Influenza is another seasonal pathogen.

I have already posted this video a number of times but it really does explain very succinctly what this is all about.

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markjay said:
The current restrictions are in place because too many people refused to adhere to the very simple and very reasonable measures that you mentioned in your very sensible post.

In fact, some people object to them on this very thread.
Click to expand...

What makes you think the people who ignored the first set of restrictions will adhere to the newer ones ?
 
ChipChop said:
The difference between Professor Heneghan and the CMO/CSO duo of Prof Whitty & Vallance is Prof Heneghan is a proponant of evidence based medicine...
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Since all three are recognised experts in their fields, I don't feel that I am qualified to settle the professional differences between Prof Heneghan on one side, and Prof Whitty and Prof Vallance on the other, and therefore I can't really comment on their disagreement. I would say, however, that I doubt very much that Prof Whitty and Prof Vallance advocate providing medical advice that isn't based on facts and evidence - they wouldn't have gotten very far in the world of academic medical research, if they did. So while I respect the fact that Prof Heneghan is proponent of evidence-based medicine, it does not follow that everyone else are proponents of the opposite.

However, I think the issue is that we are looking at the Micro instead of the Macro. We need to look at how the policy-making process works, rather than delve into medical details (that no one on here is actually qualified to discuss with any degree of authority anyway).

The way government works, is that it listens to expert advice, then reaches a decision. And, because experts are human, the advice will differ between experts, and often be contradictory. This is true for any decision, including should we go ahead with HS2, should we build another runway in Heathrow, and also decisions on how to deal with COVID-19.

Ultimately, the experts say their piece but have no responsibility or accountability, while government ministers have both. So the government needs to make a decision and often it will one that some experts agree with while others disagree.

Now, the key question isn't if Whitty is right or Heneghan is right... the key question is whether you accept that the govermnent listens to experts and then reaches a decision to its best ability (which clearly does not mean they always get it right), which is how the process is meant to work, or alternatively you believe that the government has an ulterior motive and preconceived ideas in mind and no amount of experts evidence will influence its pre-prepared plans.

In short, do you believe that the government is acting in good faith, making tough decisions in difficult circumstances, or do you think the COVID-19 is all one big plot by the government against the people?

Once you answer this question to yourself, everything else falls in place, and there will be no need to quibble about PCR testing or other medical details.
 
33654426-0-image-a-92_1601134226205.jpg
 
I suspect that the latest NHS app will not achieve much, OK so you download it and at some point get a message that you have been alongside someone who tested positive and you should isolate for 14 days. I can just imagine the response, I've been wearing my mask and obeyed all the rules of six and all that, I feel fine, so I'll just carry on, I'm not being stuck in my house for a fortnight. Or am I being pessimistic.
 
artyman said:
I suspect that the latest NHS app will not achieve much, OK so you download it and at some point get a message that you have been alongside someone who tested positive and you should isolate for 14 days. I can just imagine the response, I've been wearing my mask and obeyed all the rules of six and all that, I feel fine, so I'll just carry on, I'm not being stuck in my house for a fortnight. Or am I being pessimistic.
Click to expand...

Just about sums it up perfectly.

You have to be able to convince people that the app actually works before many will take it seriously.

An app that was focussed on reporting proximity to government as part of a pro-active monitoring facility would be more effective. Get the phones to report who had been in proximity to somebouy who tested positive and then call those people in to test. Start to work out the real risks of transmission. Track the disease and how it spreads in more detail.
 
artyman said:
I suspect that the latest NHS app will not achieve much, OK so you download it and at some point get a message that you have been alongside someone who tested positive and you should isolate for 14 days. I can just imagine the response, I've been wearing my mask and obeyed all the rules of six and all that, I feel fine, so I'll just carry on, I'm not being stuck in my house for a fortnight. Or am I being pessimistic.
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Just wait until it becomes compulsory ... and the curfew is extended.
 
Swotty said:
Just wait until it becomes compulsory ...
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It's not enforceable.

Some people will have older phones that can't run the app, some people still have Nokias, some people don't have a mobile phone, and those who do have a current phone can simply switch it off when they are going where they shouldn't be, or get a second phone with PAG simcard, then, there are areas where there's no mobile phone reception anyway, or.... the possibilities are endless. It will always be voluntary.

The talk of 'mandatory and 'compulsory ' etc are yet another Project Fear from the makers of the New World Order conspiracy thery, aimed at scaring us into rebelling against the government and the government's regulations.

The mobile phone app isn't part of a conspiracy to subjugate us. Dont use it if you don't like it. But don't be Sheeple, don't fall for the "The 4th Reich is coming" doom and gloom prophesies.
 
ChipChop said:
No need for a phone. Singapore's covid tracing "tokens" can do the tracking. Keep those elderly people in check.

www.bbc.co.uk

Singapore rolls out Covid tracing tokens

Thousands of devices are being distributed to vulnerable groups such as the elderly.
www.bbc.co.uk
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But are they compulsory...? If not, then as my old physics teacher used to tell me at school, "Your answer is very interesting but totally irrelevant".
 
markjay said:
But are they compulsory...? If not, then as my old physics teacher used to tell me at school, "Your answer is very interesting but totally irrelevant".
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Depends if you consider wanting to be able to go to shops, travel or go to work as necessary things in your life.
 
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