where is the justice...

[ghummy]

i would just like someone to put some logic for me into this story, as i just cant get my head around it.

some of you may know what i do for a living, however for those who dont my story will give you a good idea.

saturday 24th december at 19:30hrs. came onto the night shift only for me and my collegues to smell smoke half hour later. (cigarette smoke). searced the entire ward but unable to find anything.

couple of hours later, the same thing. again couldnt find anything at all however suspicions started to arise for 1 person in particular.

had security come down, took said person into security office and performed full strip search, whilst that going on, another member of security team search entire bed area and found nothing at all.

patient questioned and stated he was not doing anything at all.

christmas day - 02:00am. was alerted by burning smell (not fag smoke this time). 2 of us got up to investigate and was greeted by a bed on fire...

fire alarm raised, (it had not gone off yet as we had smoke detectors and the fire had not generated enough smoke at that point, maybe theyl consider heat detectors now)

fire service called via internal emergency number. 35 patients evacuated in 12 minutes.

our fire starter just standing infront of the bed on fire laughing.

****ed up everyones christmas at work.

ward shut down pending safety checked and repairs, staff dispersed to areas they dont have specialist knowledge in.

person in question, arrested and questioned. asked to carry out mental capacity assessment - found he was in sound mind. he admitted he knew he was not allowed to smoke in the hospital but he did anyway.

stated he was taking a few puffs and putting it out into a urine bottle so he didnt get caught.

before the fire, he put it into a paper urine bottle now knowing it was empty, placed it onto the bed and caught alight. proceeded to admit he didnt care who he killed - exact words.

next thing we know. police have decided not to press charges stating he was not in sound mind.

hospital not taking action and theres not enough evidence even though he admitted it.

im sorry but if your clever enough to hide your lighter and fags so well that it wont be found in a strip search, then in my eyes you are very sound minded.

please tell me where the logic is in that.

so is the message being sent to people is that "feel free to burn a hospital down, we wont do anything to you"

and to top it all off, he is allowed back onto the ward in the same bay as the people he nearly killed.

sorry rant over... it just really ****** me off, plus i was left to pick up the pieces and co-ordinate to the reopening and moving numoruous people backl...

 

[MOCAŠ]

im sorry but if your clever enough to hide your lighter and fags so well that it wont be found in a strip search, then in my eyes you are very sound minded.

please tell me where the logic is in that.

Firstly let me say that this is a sickening story, and I believe that the patient responsible should face some form of repurcussions, whether he is of unsound mind or not.

However, I am very surprised to see you make the simplistic statement I've quoted above. People with mental health issues can be very devious indeed, if only as part of a defence mechanism in order to avoid detection. Indeed, if they are psychotic, then it may just the consequences of their actions for which they have no regard.

 

[ghummy]

Yes you are very right. However in that case there should be a sectioning order issued pending further investigations. I should have worded my final statement slightly better.

 

[grober]

And what do the other patients and their relatives have to say about this incident?

 

[ghummy]

And what do the other patients and their relatives have to say about this incident?

we have had to move him to a different bay within the same ward so the patients in the same bay dont recognise him. and yes we have alot of angry people but we have no choice but to maintain confidentiality and sort of lie and say he is somewhere else.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

He's the same sort of person that would buy the wrong train ticket and then whine like a pussy when he's thrown off.

 

[Palfrem]

I spent last Christmas in hospital (post heart attack) and for a short while was in the holding ward that took patients from A&E pending a bed on a specialist ward.

The low-life that passed through the ward were beyond belief. Drunks, drug addicts, bar-room pugilists, etc., etc.

Without exception they gave the staff a hard time with their uncooperative behaviours, bad language, violence and general anti-social behaviour. It seemed not to occur to them that there were genuinely sick people in the ward and the staff did not have time to give them 100% of their attention at the drop of a hat. One one occasion the Police were called but their presence made no difference.

I doff my cap to the staff as if it were me, I'd boot them out onto the streets not give them a very expensive hotel room for the night.

At 3 AM I overheard the Doctor very patiently take a history from my new neighbour. He had been brought in by ambulance after being found collapsed on the street. He apparently drinks 10 cans of strong lager per day (every day! and even more on weekends). That day he had taken heroin, dope and another drug I couldn't quite hear the name of. He was a smoker and unemployed. He was 29 years of age and he said had been on this regime for the last 12 years.

During the night he pulled his drip out about 5 times, was sick a number of times and wet the bed.

Ghummy, you have my sympathy.

 

[Borys]

Thanx God no one got hurt!!!
This is what upset me most.Inocent people are being hunted for stupid things and those who really deserve to pay for their sins are let to go free.
I feel sick really.
Watch yourself there and be safe

 

[Triv]

Right. That does it. Next speeding ticket I get, I'm going to plead insanity and insist I'm a danger to myself and others...
It might save me £60 and give me time off work to be looked after by some very nice and forgiving people.

 

[MOCAŠ]

He's the same sort of person that would buy the wrong train ticket and then whine like a pussy when he's thrown off.

Right. That does it. Next speeding ticket I get, I'm going to plead insanity and insist I'm a danger to myself and others...
It might save me £60 and give me time off work to be looked after by some very nice and forgiving people.

Please guys, let's not trivialise this thread. I'm sure you're trying to make serious points, but the above posts do not come across that way.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Please guys, let's not trivialise this thread. I'm sure you're trying to make serious points, but the above posts do not come across that way.

I agree, mine was more of an off-the-cuff exasperation at people's attitudes to others.

Stories like these are why I stopped reading newspapers, it is maddening to learn of selfish people like this.

 

[DSM10000]

The part I am having trouble with is the claim (repeated) that a "full strip search" was carried out.

By what authority and by whom was this performed? Hospital staff including Security staff have no such legal powers and to attempt such a search would be assault and grounds for dismissal.

I am by no means trivializing the events as described and having spent some of my formative career in busy A&E departments I have more experiences than I care to remember of drunken, violent, ungrateful and habitually self-abusing patients and the misery they cause to other genuinely ill patients and the staff attempting to care for them..

 

[corned]

My hat off to you, Ghummy. I wouldn't last 5 minutes in your job, and I'm sure I would be in prison within a week.

I would have simply emptied that urine bottle, with stub ends, straight into his IV drip bag...

 

[Colin_b]

Sounds odd to me. Smell smoke - presumably cigarette smoke, and strip search a patient, hopefully with their consent. Looking for things which are perfectly legal to own and carry, but not found.

Can the patient not go outside for a quick drag? Seems to happen in most of the hospitals I've visited.

 

[NW_Merc]

Sorry I thought this was discussing a psychiatric ward or unit. I thought the sectioning order only works if the patient must be detained because they are in society and present a danger to themselves and the public. Seeing as this person is already in A & E, I thought you could have got an opinion from a psychiatric SPR on call or the duty SHO.

 

[ghummy]

Well i'll tell you what. When there is risk of danger to the other patients. We will do such a thing. And believe me we can justify ourselves in court if were acting in the beat interest of safety.

Its the same as us resucitating someone and breaking ribs in the process. If you sue us for doing that, do you not think the judge will say "well if they hadnt broken your ribs you wouldnt be sitting here today"

Power does not come into play with the NHS. The magic word is consent. If the patient consents to a strip search then wheres your argument.

 

[ghummy]

This patient was seen by an spr. He was deemed fully with it. A section would be totally appropriate as would you not agree this was putting the public at risk by starting a fire whilst knowing the potential consequences

 

[ghummy]

Sounds odd to me. Smell smoke - presumably cigarette smoke, and strip search a patient, hopefully with their consent. Looking for things which are perfectly legal to own and carry, but not found.

Can the patient not go outside for a quick drag? Seems to happen in most of the hospitals I've visited.

Not when your on a high concentration of oxygen. A naked flame there is a another disaster waiting to happen

 

[Dryce]

He's the same sort of person that would buy the wrong train ticket and then whine like a pussy when he's thrown off.

The underlying issue is lack of consequence.

My wife spent several days in high dependency and for part of the time there was a junkie in the opposite bed. Apart from the screaming, disruption, deliberate troublemaking, he (yes mixed ward) would yell out to demand what was happening whenever the curtains were drawn around her.

So the little f*** didn't just make life miserable for the other patients but also almost certainly put himself there. And judging by the fact some of the staff appeared to know h- it wasn't the first time.

I'd run two tier system which was judgemental. Mess with the system and you get put in the bottom tier. ('Mess with': swear at or abuse staff or patients, self inflict, take drugs / alcohol, ignore advice that brings you back in). Any further messing with bottom tier and DNR gets tagged to your records.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

This patient was seen by an spr. He was deemed fully with it. A section would be totally appropriate as would you not agree this was putting the public at risk by starting a fire whilst knowing the potential consequences

You were proved correct in your suspicions, so you don't need to justify yourselves to anyone.

My auntie is a nurse and some of the idiots she's had to put up with over the years is quite astounding.