while the police sit in anpr vans on bypasses....

[nick mercedes]

While the diligent police busy themselves hunting for people with no mot or expired tax discs....

"Police priority for fraud investigation is low - in fact it isn't on their list of priorities," said Mr Kirk."

"If you were an ordinary member of public taking your complaint about a fraud along to your local police station, you would probably find that you would not get much response - you would have to be quite lucky to get it investigated"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7611288.stm

 

[manalishi]

Sounds all too familiar.

When Plod 'investigated' a fake bankers draft (never, ever trust one unless you see it handed over at the buyer's bank), he wasn't at all interested in any of the evidence. Didn't want to write down the serial number of the guitar that was snaffled with the draft, nor the phone numbers the bloke used. Actually, even before that, he tried to persuade me not to report it.

 

[W210 Fan]

too easy to catch the motorist as we have our names and addresses on the license plate (if we are law abiding,) stop crimes getting reported such as above, rename crimes to incidents and low and behold you have lowered the crime rate and secured yourself another term in office, running the country is easy, running it well isnt,

 

[Sp!ke]

Had a similar experience trying to report identity theft problem where I am convinced someone was filtering my snail mail as part of the scam.

The police said that there was no such crime as identity theft.

The crime was fraud and the banking industry was the victim and not my wife or I, so it was the banks that needed to report any such crime.

It was like banging my head against the wall. Its no wonder the problem is so rife.

 

[wemorgan]

Criminals of more serious crimes, such as drug offences, may also drive around uninsured. So when the Police use ANPR it's not always just motoring offences that they detect.

 

[st4]

Criminals of more serious crimes, such as drug offences, may also drive around uninsured. So when the Police use ANPR it's not always just motoring offences that they detect.

But what about all the "safety camera vans" they sit in. APNR is used to assist in detection of motoring crimes, and what does the punishment for these crimes usually yield- money. The effort thats put into detecting motoring crimes is primarily done for its monetary advantage.

Back to the OP, this does echo an experience I've had with the police. My pal was ripped off on eBay (con artist hijacked some elses paypal, paid by pal, he sent £400 worth of Nokia 8800 off, then the chargeback came as the actual accounter owner twigged). I went with him as I had more experience of ebay/paypal so I could help him put the point to the copper. In actual fact the copper was very helpful and seemed interested, took the details and we never heard from him again.

 

[Dieselman]

In actual fact the copper was very helpful and seemed interested, took the details and we never heard from him again.

That would be a PP issue. Either the 3rd party knew their account was in jeopardy or PP have a weakness in thier systems.
I'm not sure why your friend had a chargeback for this.

Everyone (including the O-p) seems to be ignoring the text of the news aricle posted in post #1.

In 2007, the government changed the rules over banking fraud, telling customers that banks would handle the complaints and decide whether to refer them to the police.


Banking fraud isn't a crime unless reported by the bank, not the 3rd party.
but then we couldn't have a good whinge about the Police then could we...

 

[raymont]

Slightly OT but if I don't buy / renew my TV licence, after a while someone will come and knock on my door.

However if a vehicle isn't taxed (VED) (and isn't SORNd (vehicle off road)), isn't insured, doesn't have an MOT the authorities apparently wait until they see the vehicle passing an ANPR. Why don't they go and knock on the door? I know some will be registered to false addresses, but quite a few won't.

Agree about fraud, outrageous that the police just aren't interested.

 

[st4]

Banking fraud isn't a crime unless reported by the bank, not the 3rd party.
but then we couldn't have a good whinge about the Police then could we...

Well, I find the threads that praise them for doing their job a little tiresome to be honest.

 

[Sp!ke]

Banking fraud isn't a crime unless reported by the bank, not the 3rd party.

I understand that bit, but I was trying to report identity theft. Apparently there is no such crime.

 

[Dieselman]

Well, I find the threads that praise them for doing their job a little tiresome to be honest.

Because you're biased and want to make a point. You once said you have no direct experience of issues with them, so on what do you make your opinion, or is that an opinion of others impressed upon you.

And just how many threads do we have praising them? None in comparison to the whinge and moan ones...which are extremely tedious.

What the moaners on here don't appreciate is that due to the constant needlessly haranguing, the Police members on this forum stop posting so stop giving useful information and advice, as they used to.

I would rather hear their messages than the unfounded ones constantly having a go at them. I suspect I'm not alone.

 

[st4]

Because you're biased and want to make a point. You once said you have no direct experience of issues with them, so on what do you make your opinion, or is that an opinion of others impressed upon you.

And just how many threads do we have praising them? None in comparison to the whinge and moan ones...which are extremely tedious.

What the moaners on here don't appreciate is that due to the constant needlessly haranguing, the Police members on this forum they stop posting so stop giving useful information and advice, as they used to.

I would rather hear their messages that the unfounded ones constantly having a go at them. I suspect I'm not alone.

Not my direct experiences of them but of people who I know who have been dissappointed by their experiences (not breaking the law either). I am not actually bias, but you go by what you see and know, and from what I've seen the police do, I don't have a great opinion, not neccessarily of the people who are in it, but the rules, regulations and laws they have to work with. We've mentioned before police service vs police force, and I think therein lies the problem. I suspect my sentiments are shared, and not just the DM readers here either.

 

[wemorgan]

However if a vehicle isn't taxed (VED) (and isn't SORNd (vehicle off road)), isn't insured, doesn't have an MOT the authorities apparently wait until they see the vehicle passing an ANPR. Why don't they go and knock on the door? I know some will be registered to false addresses, but quite a few won't.

I think the Police need to catch the owner in the act of driving the car for some of those offence to be registered.

 

[Dragon]

While the diligent police busy themselves hunting for people with no mot or expired tax discs....

"Police priority for fraud investigation is low - in fact it isn't on their list of priorities," said Mr Kirk."

"If you were an ordinary member of public taking your complaint about a fraud along to your local police station, you would probably find that you would not get much response - you would have to be quite lucky to get it investigated"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7611288.stm

This is what we called the grey area. The police is just trying to do his/her job, getting paid that all, he/she is not interested in your problem. As long as he/she done his/her 9 to 5 that it, end of the job thereafter.

 

[Carrotchomper]

Because you're biased and want to make a point. You once said you have no direct experience of issues with them, so on what do you make your opinion, or is that an opinion of others impressed upon you.

And just how many threads do we have praising them? None in comparison to the whinge and moan ones...which are extremely tedious.

What the moaners on here don't appreciate is that due to the constant needlessly haranguing, the Police members on this forum stop posting so stop giving useful information and advice, as they used to.

I would rather hear their messages than the unfounded ones constantly having a go at them. I suspect I'm not alone.

Well said Dieselman. Some may notice my posting rate has diminished somewhat recently.

Directly, that is a result of having spent the last month co-ordinating a murder enquiry spending every spare moment at the office.

Indirectly, that is a result of getting home and finding the prospect of trawling through Daily Wail-style anti police rants a little tiresome having spent 12-13hrs with an incident room of 15 detectives working our axxxs off to catch a killer. Not a motorist. Normal family life suspended until we do. And you will probably not find one person within the CID who actually gives a toss about speeding motorists.

Rant over. It's just boring now.

 

[TomTanderson]

Can we have a list from the moaners giving what their profession is (assuming they have one - some people seem to be just professional forum posters) and then we can post about what tossers everybody are that do their job?

We can make endless posts about how they aren't interested in our problems, only in it for the money and their personal greed, how lazy/workshy they are etc. We can also drag these comments into every post we make until we have bored everybody rigid.

Once we have dealt with people's professions then maybe we can move onto other prejudices we have about other groups in society, their race, nationality, sexual orientation, marital status, age, whether they are employed etc.................oh we could have a field day.

Or maybe we could talk about cars and and our own personal experiences of motoring.

 

[glojo]

The problem as I see it is that there has been a huge increase in the number of safety camera's, continual purges on minor traffic infringements and a total lack of interest in petty crime.

I say this with a heavy heart but the police NEED to improve their image. Theft is theft, fraud is fraud and crimianl damage is criminal damage. How many time sdo we read posts where complainants have quite clearly been victims and the police simply turn round and claim it is an insurance issue or civil debt?

Internet fraud
Theft of identity
Hit and run (leaving behind evidence or CCTV footage)
Criminal damage

The list is endless but the response is always the same. We CANNOT be told how crime is down, police numbers are up and yet when we are victims we are told an officer might visit within 48 hours? Yes there are circumstances where there is an imediate response but that is exactly how it should be. Every time anyone is fobbed off by 'It's not a police matter' is bad, bad for us and bad for the reputation of one of the best police forces in the World.

Internet Fraud
This is a major, major problem and without a doubt it should be policed by a nationalised, dedicated unit which can deal with crimes committed in England, Northern Ireland or Wales.

The police must start accepting that a crime is a crime is a crime. There is a place for police cameras, there is a place for catching speeding motorist, but there is no place for 'It's not a police issue'

Regards
John

 

[MBManInKen]

The problem as I see it is that there has been a huge increase in the number of safety camera's, continual purges on minor traffic infringements and a total lack of interest in petty crime.

I say this with a heavy heart but the police NEED to improve their image.

I think we give too much stick to the police for these problems and by far not enough criticism of those second and third tier decision makers who have actually directed policing policies.

Or, differently said: the police are an operational branch of the system, they implement, carry out a certain vision on policing society. It's the politicians, civil servants and other bodies that actually decide on all of this and put in place stupid targets, headline grabbing nonsense and red tape that we should tackle.

Unfortunately, those entities are for most citizens pretty invisible or even unknown and so it's plod who we meet in our daily activities that gets all the flack for things that mostly they can't do anything about.

 

[glojo]

I think we give too much stick to the police for these problems and by far not enough criticism of those second and third tier decision makers who have actually directed policing policies.

Or, differently said: the police are an operational branch of the system, they implement, carry out a certain vision on policing society. It's the politicians, civil servants and other bodies that actually decide on all of this and put in place stupid targets, headline grabbing nonsense and red tape that we should tackle.

Unfortunately, those entities are for most citizens pretty invisible or even unknown and so it's plod who we meet in our daily activities that gets all the flack for things that mostly they can't do anything about.

Unfortunately our Chief Constables are allowing themselves to be used as political pawns and carrying out the deeds and whims of their political masters. They are then far to worried about image and being politically correct. That is WRONG! This country prides itself on a police service that is not influenced by whatever government is in power. a police officer is an officer of the crown, NOT the sitting political party.

A year or so ago we had a member who complained about a Discovery 4x4 demolishing her garden wall\fence and then driving off leaving parts of the vehicle behind. She was told this incident was not a police matter but one for her insurance company to deal with. The sad thing was that a number of serving police officers agreed with this information! They are wrong, which indicates to me that there training\attitude was wrong.

The British Police service prides itself on being politically independent but for the last ten or so years we have seen a huge sway in this doctrine and I would cite the visit by the Chinese President when government ministers instructed the police in how to stop demonstrators from LEGALLY and peacefully demonstrating. I will not go into the details of what was done but it was wrong and this is just one very serious example of how the police are not being strong enough to stand up and tell politicians what they may or may not do.

Obviously workers have a right to strike, but the police MUST ensure the rights of free passage and the rights of non striking workers to carry out their daily toils. That is NOT a misuse of the police service but politicians are becoming far too influential on demanding what local policies should, or should not be enforced.

Here in Devon and Cornwall most, if not all ANPR vehicles are manned by civilian staff but they may be traffic officers attached to the unit that will be deployed to catch flagged vehicles, or those that deserved to be stopped for something more serious than straight forward speeding.

I am one of those members that will always support our police when it is deserved, but when something is wrong, then it is wrong. A crime, is a crime, is a crime. Be it the theft of a bottle of milk or a car that demolishes a garden wall. If I knock a wall over with a large lump of wood then is that a crime?

John

 

[MBManInKen]

Unfortunately our Chief Constables are allowing themselves to be used as political pawns and carrying out the deeds and whims of their political masters.

I have to be honest and say that I just don't know how strong a lobby police unions, ACPO and other organisations really are. But I do agree with the notion that they ought to have a strong impact on policy definition etc, if only because they are the people dealing with the issues on an everyday basis.

It might very well be the case that their political masters have eroded that independence unduly. It's tricky business though, because generally speaking you'd want policies to be defined and priorities to be set by people who are publicly accountable, i.e. ultimately Parliament.

This country prides itself on a police service that is not influenced by whatever government is in power. a police officer is an officer of the crown, NOT the sitting political party.

I certainly would agree with that sentiment. The question is, though, have we allowed our politicians and quangos to manoeuvre the police force into the position they are currently in? Legally speaking, it's ultimately Parliament that has the final say and proud or not, ultimately even the police would need to bow to Parliament's ultimate authority. I guess it might be even worse in that in practice governments of the day wield the real power in the modern state and Parliaments legitimise their decisions, rather than the strict separation between legislative and executive that the thinkers of the Enlightenment had in mind.

Be it the theft of a bottle of milk or a car that demolishes a garden wall. If I knock a wall over with a large lump of wood then is that a crime?

Sadly enough, the definition of crime is ultimately what the lawmaker defines it as, not the police as an operational branch. I think quite a few police officers would actually agree with all of us about crime, but are in no position to do much about it.

I do have sympathy for your POV that senior police officers ought to take a stand in this matter, but I think it's really unfair to blame plod in the street for the present situation.