Who's in the right here ?

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Brian k

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So here's the deal.

Dual carriageway heading into the centre of town and not many cars about as it's early morning.
I'm in the nearside lane and I see a doddery old lady heading towards a pedestrian crossing. She's obviously getting on a bit bless her and she has one of those 4 wheel shopping baskets. The type of basket that you lean on and push along in front of you. It looked as much for stability as for shopping.
Anyhow, I've seen her well in advance so I slow down and stop at the crossing for her. She doesn't press the crossing button but instead she walks out onto it in front of my car. The pedestrian crossing lights stay green.
A red golf comes up way behind me doing some clip. He obviously hasn't seen the lady in front of my car, he pulls out to overtake me and manages to clatter the old lady's shopping trolley at some speed.

At this point I think I had my eyes shut, but when I open them the old lady is still standing, and her trolley is trashed on its side. The golf just carried on and I didn't have the presence of mind to get his number.
I picked up her trolley and the old lady is ok if a bit shaken. Probably not as shaken as I was because I was actually fearing the worst.

As I see it the old lady was at fault for not pressing the pedestrian crossing button in the first place, but surely the golf driver is culpable for a myriad of things as well as failing to stop at the scene of an accident ?

Am I right in thinking that pedestrians always have right of way, even when they are in the wrong as in this case ?
 
Nice gesture on your part but in doing so she nearly met her maker.

Pedestrians should use the crossing as intended and so should drivers. I've had it before crossing our street with the kids in tow and some numpty thinks he's doing us a favour by stopping to let us cross whilst the other carriageway is oblivious. Cue a nice easy way to wipe out 3 young kids. MOVE ALONG YOU MUPPET!
 
Pedestrians do always have the right of way,just a crap driver not watching was was unfolding in front of him,he did not use the few brain cells he has and nearly killed somebody,you do get drivers who think that pedestrians do not have the right of way,but they do even if they are walking in the fast lane of a motorway ,what else are you going to do kill them,well the golf driver is one that obviously thinks they are fair game.
 
Probably a bit of each. You stopped on a green light when you had right of way and really should keep going. The old lady crossed on a green light but was probably lacking awareness of the situation, and the golf wasn't expecting to have to stop on a green but maybe should have been more careful.

I hate to say this and will probably get shot down in flames bit I think you created the situation by trying to do what you thought was a favour for the old lady.
 
I don't think a driver ever has the right to plough into someone who happens to be walking across the road. If the traffic light is still green (or red!) I think it is down to the person walking across the road to see that it is safe to do so. Tricky one this, but It's always better to avoid getting run over rather than debate who's fault it was afterwards.
 
You stopped on a green light when you had right of way and really should keep going. I hate to say this and will probably get shot down in flames bit I think you created the situation by trying to do what you thought was a favour for the old lady.

Hmm, I have to agree.
 
She should have pressed the button. I would not have stopped for her.

Did the Golf see the pedestrian who was crossing against the lights?

I would never stop for a child at a crossing (not a zebra crossing) governed by a patrol man/lady because the next time the child will think the cars will stop...but they will not.

Be very very careful when you think you are being courteous.

I had occasion recently to allow an elderly person to cross in front of me. She had already started crossing from my right and was going to continue...I pulled across two lanes with hazards on and stopped the traffic in both lanes behind me. She could have got wiped without this action.
 
So here's the deal.

Dual carriageway heading into the centre of town and not many cars about as it's early morning.
I'm in the nearside lane and I see a doddery old lady heading towards a pedestrian crossing. She's obviously getting on a bit bless her and she has one of those 4 wheel shopping baskets. The type of basket that you lean on and push along in front of you. It looked as much for stability as for shopping.
Anyhow, I've seen her well in advance so I slow down and stop at the crossing for her. She doesn't press the crossing button but instead she walks out onto it in front of my car. The pedestrian crossing lights stay green.
A red golf comes up way behind me doing some clip. He obviously hasn't seen the lady in front of my car, he pulls out to overtake me and manages to clatter the old lady's shopping trolley at some speed.

At this point I think I had my eyes shut, but when I open them the old lady is still standing, and her trolley is trashed on its side. The golf just carried on and I didn't have the presence of mind to get his number.
I picked up her trolley and the old lady is ok if a bit shaken. Probably not as shaken as I was because I was actually fearing the worst.

As I see it the old lady was at fault for not pressing the pedestrian crossing button in the first place, but surely the golf driver is culpable for a myriad of things as well as failing to stop at the scene of an accident ?

Am I right in thinking that pedestrians always have right of way, even when they are in the wrong as in this case ?

If it is true to say that she crossed because you stopped to allow her to... then you are lucky she isn't dead. Without your action it is likely she would have pressed the button and proceeded safely to cross on her green.
 
Had you done what you did on your driving test, you would have failed, the lights for you were green and as you say, the old person, may not have been as mentally alert to see the Golf overtaking.
 
I once witnessed an Instant Karma moment, it was in Edgware Road in Kilburn some 20 years ago. It's a dual lane carriageway and I was in the left ('slow') lane. It was late at night, and I stopped on a Zebra crossing to let a young lady cross. She did the right thing and paused in front of my car, looking to her right before proceeding. And sure enough, one of these late-night fliers with a souped-up old Vauxhall whizzed-by on my right at some speed. Had the lady not stopped, the overtaking Vauxhall would have taken her with it...

The lady then proceeded and crossed safely to the other side of the road. Before I set off again, there was a siren behind me and I was overtaken by a police car with flashing blue lights, who pulled the Vauxhall over.

Sadly no dashcams or smartphones in those days... so I am the only witness.

Sadly I have since been overtaken while stopped on a zebra crossing on several occasions, but never witenssed another Instant Karma moment again.
 
Golf had no business overtaking as there would have been zigzags on the road.
I think the rule used to be that within the zig-zags you were prohibited from overtaking the moving vehicle nearest the crossing, but now it is that you "must not overtake the leading vehicle when approaching a crossing". It would appear that irrespective of the lights, the Golf driver was in the wrong.

That does rather beg the question, though, of what is the intention if, for whatever reason, the 'leading' vehicle isn't moving?

Nice gesture on your part but in doing so she nearly met her maker.
Pedestrians should use the crossing as intended and so should drivers. I've had it before crossing our street with the kids in tow and some numpty thinks he's doing us a favour by stopping to let us cross whilst the other carriageway is oblivious. Cue a nice easy way to wipe out 3 young kids. MOVE ALONG YOU MUPPET!

If you are saying that there is a crossing which you and your kids will use when the lights let you, I agree. If you are advocating never showing any courtesy to pedestrians wishing to cross, I part company with you there. Notwithstanding, I'd not have stopped for the old lady in the situation given if the lights had been green, unless (of course) she had set out to cross anyway.
 
Sadly I have since been overtaken while stopped on a zebra crossing on several occasions, but never witnessed another Instant Karma moment again.

It's your own fault for stopping on zebra crossings...:D
 
I didn't think that anyone has 'right of way' on any road.
But all traffic should give way to pedestrians.
I would have done the same as you, but been racked with guilt had anything happened to her.
 
This isn't about courtesy. It's about not creating a situation where someone can be put at risk.
 
The whole reason for controlled crossings is for pedestrians and cars to cross safely knowing that the other is stopped by a red light. Overriding this by stopping on green is dangerous as OP has found out.

The OP's footnote "You can't legislate for stupid" is quite ironic in the circumstances :oops:
 
Golf boy would find himself in a world of shit should he have been reported to the police.
  • Driving without due care and attention
  • Overtaking on a crossing
  • Failing to stop at an accident
  • Failing to report(presumably) and accident
All deliberate, and completely avoidable, actions. Without knowing the full details I would guess that he would have still overtaken had the OP simply been travelling too slow for him.
 
Seems pretty clear from this HIGHWAY CODE Updated 01/03/2017
Using the road - Pedestrian crossings (191 to 199)

191
You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.
Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 18, 20 & 24, RTRA sect 25(5) & TSRGD regs 10, 27 & 28
 
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