why an armed population is a bad idea

[nick mercedes]

Colorado theater shooting: a deadly attack delivered with brutal precision | World news | The Guardian

"used three guns to shoot 71 people in two minutes" (!!?)

 

[MercFanUk]

I'm not opposed to being able to arm yourself for self defense etc - but I do think the US has it a little borked when they allow people to own fully automatic assault rifles.

I'd have thought a regular pistol would be all anyone would need to feel like they could successfully protect themselves, possibly a shotgun.

If they did want to own the more insane weapons, for use at a gun club for example, I think it'd make more sense to have them kept and stored on site at the club rather than at home.

 

[Bosco]

As a gun owner for almost 40 years I support gun ownership by citizens. I'm not in the US by the way.

Here's what can happen when Joe Soap finds himself in a life of death situation against armed criminals.

LiveLeak.com - Customer at Internet cafe shoots 2 robbers

 

[flango]

I also support gun ownership even with our tight controls in the UK we have had loons roam the streets killing innocent people and children, not in the numbers like this last incident but still significant. If people want guns they will get them. Colarado's guns laws are notoriously lax and the slackest in the USA but not sure if this is a contributing factor or not the guy was obviously insane and I hope he enjoys the 40,000 volts coming to him.

 

[MOCAŠ]

As a gun owner for almost 40 years I support gun ownership by citizens. I'm not in the US by the way.

Here's what can happen when Joe Soap finds himself in a life of death situation against armed criminals.

LiveLeak.com - Customer at Internet cafe shoots 2 robbers

A lucky outcome, perhaps. That whole situation could so easily have turned into a bloodbath of the innocent. What if one of the people milling around the shop had got in the way of a bullet, or if a bullet had ricocheted off something into a bystander, or even if the armed criminals had shot back rather than turning tail?

The population of the USA is around five times that of the UK, yet their gun deaths are around 100 times higher. We don't need easier access to guns in this country.

 

[Bellow]

Here's what can happen when Joe Soap finds himself in a life of death situation against armed criminals.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=428_1342491285

Shooting as they flee is hardly a life and death situation.
But that's the mindset that is likely to accompany being armed. America is a paranoid nation. Hence the right to bear arms.
Assault rifles though? That's just feeding fantasists who can't tell fact from fiction - and there's quite a few of them ready to play the superhero. With violence as the new entertainment - who is really surprised by these massacres?

 

[finisterre]

I think their culture is reflected in their crimes.

The batman franchise glories in vicarious violence. People get off on the misuse of power. This nutter will have grown up with neo-con posturing, Hollywood 'entertainment', the NRA, macho status, endemic disrespect for the powerless and poor, and a culture where even the state's foreign policy is dependant on the projection of power through use of weapons.

It seems James Holmes was cross with the world, it lacked respect and failed to value him as a person, he chose to assert himself through violence as a protest that proved he had real power.

Sad **** that he was.

 

[LTD]

Given the reports of how heavily booby-trapped his home is, this is no 'normal' event but one of a pre-meditated loon ball.

It's a tragedy.

 

[Red C220]

Shooting as they flee is hardly a life and death situation.
But that's the mindset that is likely to accompany being armed. America is a paranoid nation. Hence the right to bear arms.
Assault rifles though? That's just feeding fantasists who can't tell fact from fiction - and there's quite a few of them ready to play the superhero. With violence as the new entertainment - who is really surprised by these massacres?

There is one often overlooked very important difference though.

America have a category of Murder classed as "Justifiable Homicide" which differs from state to state.

If we had a law similar to this, the Tony Martin issue would not have reached court. (This case, in reality, involved around Martin shooting the burglars as they tried to leave the property when faced with the owner and his shotgun).

In short (in the USA), if an armed robber/burglar/attacker enters your property you have justification (not a right - but a justification should it be a life threatening situation) to kill them in self defense.

As this is a national law - all parties involved are aware before the event.

This changes the parameters of what is reasonable and what isn't and it's difficult for us Brits, who if faced with someone trying to rape/murder our family might find ourselves charged with Murder if we choose to protect in that way.

 

[grober]

Some background. FIREARMS TUTORIAL While many gun lobbyists frequently advocate cite self defence against armed criminals for gun ownership they tend to ignore the high number of people who commit suicide by gun, hunting incidents and the many tragic " child on child" accidents that occur every year in the home in the USA . Every year cars kill thousands of people- but this is not their primary purpose- that's for transporting people from A to B. A gun's specifically designed to kill people/ things at a distance that's their "raison d'etre" the fact they can be used for good on occasions unfortunately all too often remains secondary to their primary lethality.

Here's a test ----you are to be locked in a room with a large friendly but inquisitive chimpanzee with a limited stock of bananas . You have a choice--- to hand the chimpanzee a shiny loaded revolver or your jingly car keys as a distraction in exchange for a few bananas? Which item do you give them? If the thought crossed your mind - shoot the chimpanzee instead- you have demonstrated that mere possession of a handgun can change how you perceive any possible solution to a situation .

 

[David C]

When is America going to get a grip on gun control? Probably never.
They will hold a candle light vigil, the President will come out and say how terrible it is and we must all pull together, and within 6 months there will be another large scale shooting...

 

[finisterre]

just seen my spelling booby
dependant
dependent
grrr.. sorry about that..

 

[Peter DLM]

A madman with an illegal gun/no licence enters cinema and kills people. A citizen with a legally held concealed weapon could have saved 10 lives or so. The problem was there was too few legal guns in that cinema.

 

[Red C220]

When is America going to get a grip on gun control? Probably never.
They will hold a candle light vigil, the President will come out and say how terrible it is and we must all pull together, and within 6 months there will be another large scale shooting...

The problem you have here is it would take a brave politician to stop it. Such a large proportion of voters are fully paid up NRA members that you're effectively signing the end of your career. Even if you did get it passed, the likely hood is the next incumbent simply reverses your decision.

The right to bear arms (or the right to arm bears) is the fundamental issue here. It was written with militia in mind to defend towns, not BillyBob to own sever assault rifles and a rocket launcher.

This is a fundamental shift in National policy, that's a tall order.

 

[Colin_b]

If we had a law similar to this, the Tony Martin issue would not have reached court. (This case, in reality, involved around Martin shooting the burglars as they tried to leave the property when faced with the owner and his shotgun).

I rather hope we never get a law that permits someone to fatally shoot someone in the back while not under direct threat.

 

[Bellow]

The problem you have here is it would take a brave politician to stop it. Such a large proportion of voters are fully paid up NRA members that you're effectively signing the end of your career. Even if you did get it passed, the likely hood is the next incumbent simply reverses your decision.

Can't remember who I'm quoting when I say 'the two things a US President must never do are f*ck with the NRA or raise the price of gas'. And none really have.

The right to bear arms (or the right to arm bears) is the fundamental issue here. It was written with militia in mind to defend towns, not BillyBob to own sever assault rifles and a rocket launcher.

This is a fundamental shift in National policy, that's a tall order.

Goes all the way back to believing the Brits were going to come back at them.


America's problem though. Are we confident the UK doesn't go the same way? We may not have the weaponry in the same quantity but the slavish adoption of US entertainment and thinking have been here for quite some time. How will that play out in dear old Blighty?

 

[Scott_F]

A madman with an illegal gun/no licence enters cinema and kills people. A citizen with a legally held concealed weapon could have saved 10 lives or so. The problem was there was too few legal guns in that cinema.

The real problem is that any increase in gun ownership wouldn't distinguish between responsible and irresponsible owners and the solution that you are advocating is a wild west style shootout in a dark, crowded cinema.

No thanks.

 

[MercFanUk]

There was an interesting comment made by some bloke on the news earlier: If this lad hadn't been able to buy these guns, we'd have more than likely been looking at him becoming a bomber instead, after all his flat is kitted out with some quite complex explosives. He was going to kill no matter what the method by all appearances.

Sure, guns are bad in the wrong hands, but so can a lot of other things be. If bad guys want to use a gun to kill someone, they'll acquire it some way or another, be it legal or not.

We hear of occasions of people losing it and going on killing sprees - these are strange occurrences, and we need to look at the cause and not the method. Perhaps some form of mental fitness tests once a year to keep your gun license.

 

[bernie driscoll]

He was going to kill no matter what the method by all appearances.

Having a whole load of guns made it very easy for him though.

Ban guns and bombs.

 

[markjay]

I see two separate discussions here.


Gun control is one. The UK if far tougher on private ownership of firearms than the US.


However the Batman movie massacre is another. Sadly these things happen everywhere, from time to time, even in countries with very tight gun control such as ours.

Hungerford massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dunblane school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cumbria shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These were all carried-out by perpetrators holding a valid Firearms Certificate.

So tight gun control is not by itself an effective measure for preventing seemingly-insane people from going on a killing spree. Which is why I think that gun control and massacres such as this are two separate discussions.