Why I've never broken down in a Classic Mercedes (in 15 years)

[k77nrs]

Perhaps...in a separate thread?

good point, will take a look!

 

[219]

can anyone explain the main difference between the W114 and W115?

W114 has six cylinder engines ; W115 four cylinder

 

[k77nrs]

W114 has six cylinder engines ; W115 four cylinder

Thanks, any thoughts on which is the better engine choice? I guess 6 cylinders are probably better?

 

[k77nrs]

Like one or two others on here , I grew up in a 'Mercedes family' with my dad buying his first new one in 1964 , after a succession of Jaguars , Rovers , Fords and others , some of which I remember . We also had Land Rovers , and after the first Merc going in for its service and being given a VW Beetle as a courtesy car , we always had one in the family right up until they stopped making them . Besides Mercs , we have had countless VWs and Audis in the family as well .

I started with Mercs when I was 17 , have always had at least one , and am now 62 .

Being one of 4 kids I was brought up on seven seat estates....initially Volvo 240’s and latterly Renault 21 Savanna’s....my dads last company car was an E36 AMG....was a very rare car, and he absolutely loved it. The performance was exceptional compared with the prior Volvos and Renaults.

 

[219]

Yea my family had Volvos and MBs from the mid- 60s. No arguing that, in their time they & SAABS, were likely the safest cars on the road. However we have moved on and a shell of steel does not necessarily make it safer. I'm sure that proponents of the older 'tanks of steel' will find ways to "subjectively prove" that their cars are just as safe. However with all the statistics available there is ample empirical proof that modern cars are safer.

Oh , I’m not belittling all the new technology , although it largely falls into the ‘active safety’ category- that is avoidance of a crash is preferable to surviving it .

Feature

Thanks, any thoughts on which is the better engine choice? I guess 6 cylinders are probably better?

It depends what you want .

For economy and dependability the four cylinder models were hard to beat , also with the smaller engine up front , handling and cornering was a bit more nimble .

For six cylinder motoring , forget the 250 , just as thirsty as the 280 but without the performance. My manual 280E was a flying machine , with a howl like a jet engine , passed everything but the petrol pumps .

 

[219]

Last month, which given that I'm not really getting out much at the moment is fairly recently. Clearly there's a much more even distribution of older cars around these parts compared to Central Scotland.

I just had a look on 'How many left'

Taking a typical basic car popular in the seventies , I picked the VW Beetle - now , How many Left list them as individual models , so I picked the 1300 as typical - it showed around 700 still taxed across the four quarters of last year , and a further 800 or so SORN .

Then I looked at a typical Jap thing , I remember the roads used to be infested with Datsuns , so looking there , I remember the Sunny was a popular model ; last year there were SEVEN left taxed in the UK , and 27 on SORN .
Take another popular model back then , the original Honda Civic - there are 5 taxed and 5 on SORN as of last year .

That says it all about the relative longevity of Jap stuff versus European , and particularly German .

Just in case you think the Beetle is a better than average car , and remember I looked only at one of the numerous models within the range , I then looked at the worst of the British Leyland output = the All-Aggro of which there are 11 and 25 respectively , so even these are doing better than the Jap stuff , admittedly not by much .

I rest my case .

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I just had a look on 'How many left'

Taking a typical basic car popular in the seventies , I picked the VW Beetle - now , How many Left list them as individual models , so I picked the 1300 as typical - it showed around 700 still taxed across the four quarters of last year , and a further 800 or so SORN .

Then I looked at a typical Jap thing , I remember the roads used to be infested with Datsuns , so looking there , I remember the Sunny was a popular model ; last year there were SEVEN left taxed in the UK , and 27 on SORN .
Take another popular model back then , the original Honda Civic - there are 5 taxed and 5 on SORN as of last year .

That says it all about the relative longevity of Jap stuff versus European , and particularly German .

Just in case you think the Beetle is a better than average car , and remember I looked only at one of the numerous models within the range , I then looked at the worst of the British Leyland output = the All-Aggro of which there are 11 and 25 respectively , so even these are doing better than the Jap stuff , admittedly not by much .

I rest my case .

Except that you are comparing old Jap cars built in a time when their quality was not the greatest. Look at the standard of today's Japanese car.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Except that you are comparing old Jap cars built in a time when their quality was not the greatest. Look at the standard of today's Japanese car.

Wasn't the Beetle the most produced car in the world at the time?

 

[Bellow]

An interesting perspective which is, as another might note, a bit of a generalisation. No?

Yes, a generalisation - which would inevitably miss the overlap between categories 2 and 3 - which you appear to occupy.

I've only owned nine cars in the last 50 years and the previous one was a 300CE-24 bought in 1997. I px'd it in 2001 for the present E320 coupe. The transaction was by phone with a former MB dealership in Brighton - they took my car unseen and I bought their car unseen. I drove from Edinburgh to Brighton and back in the day and 19 years on is evidence enough that the deal was a success.

Of course, there have been some unannounced repair bills - wiring loom being the most costly as well as a rear suspension rebuild - but, like a Rolls Royce, the car has never failed to proceed. As you infer, costs can be a minefield but they can be offset against notional or actual depreciation. Being somewhat anally-retentive and unable to cast off a previous life in finance, my meticulous records show that, excluding the purchase price, over forty-four thousand of my dodgily-earned pounds have been lavished on the bugger. To be fair, tax, insurance and fuel are unavoidable so it works out at c.50p per mile.

I don't do any DIY but can assure you I do get a very intense feeling of involvement whenever my wallet is is produced from the vault.

"In short, an immensely rewarding and engaging experience that 'car as commodity' owners will never experience."

Agree.

What makes that 'straddle' possible (and desirable for you it seems) is that as per a classic, you have a vehicle with inherent quality/durability that gives it dependability and a level of engagement - even without your own hands performing the maintenance/repairs.
You choose not to be in category 1 ( there are reasons for and against and each person makes their own choice) but have a solution that is not category 2 by compulsion.
Category 1 'car as commodity owners' can - and do - get the engagement element if they take on a classic as a second car. That 'engagement' though will likely serve as a constant reminder why they reside in category 1 when it comes to dependable transportation. But pulling off running a classic as a daily is quite a trick. As rewarding as it can be frustrating!

 

[219]

Except that you are comparing old Jap cars built in a time when their quality was not the greatest. Look at the standard of today's Japanese car.

I really don’t perceive them as any different; they last well up to around five years old ; between five and ten years old most of them fall apart , beyond ten years old their decline accelerates beyond that of the more durable cars made by the better European manufacturers . One only needs to look at what is on the roads compared with what fills the scrapyards - even then , Pacific rim cars , including Jap , don’t tend to hang around before being crushed because most owners use them as ‘commodity’ cars and won’t bother repairing other old ones which remain . They also tend to be bought by people who have no interest in cars , or maintaining them .

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I really don’t perceive them as any different; they last well up to around five years old ; between five and ten years old most of them fall apart , beyond ten years old their decline accelerates beyond that of the more durable cars made by the better European manufacturers . One only needs to look at what is on the roads compared with what fills the scrapyards - even then , Pacific rim cars , including Jap , don’t tend to hang around before being crushed because most owners use them as ‘commodity’ cars and won’t bother repairing other old ones which remain . They also tend to be bought by people who have no interest in cars , or maintaining them .

What was the pick-up that they couldn't kill on Top Gear?

Was is an elderly Mercedes?

Nuh.

 

[Deleted member 126251]

......................One only needs to look at what is on the roads compared with what fills the scrapyards - even then ...............

"Correlation does not imply causation." - I don't know the number but "Pacific rim" cars have substantially outsold "European manufacturers" for many years which implies that there will be more in the scrapyards and not that they are worse cars.

I'm not saying that they are better but your reasoning appears flawed.

 

[Screwdriver]

But pulling off running a classic as a daily is quite a trick. As rewarding as it can be frustrating!

Do you own a W115/ W123/ W124/ W126? After sorting these, I no longer needed a new car. They are far more reliable than anything o n sale.

What was the pick-up that they couldn't kill on Top Gear?
Was is an elderly Mercedes?
Nuh.

Don't really watch Top Gear but Fifth Gear did fire a canon into a W124, submerged it into water and then dropped it off a building. Still started. Episode's on Youtube somewhere. What was your point again?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Do you own a W115/ W123/ W124/ W126? After sorting these, I no longer needed a new car. They are far more reliable than anything o n sale.



Don't really watch Top Gear but Fifth Gear did fire a canon into a W124, submerged it into water and then dropped it off a building. Still started. Episode's on Youtube somewhere. What was your point again?

Ah, ****. No, I meant that old Mercedes cars are the finest in the world, no other slitty eyed makers can come anywhere near them.

Deutschland, Deutschland über alles.

 

[190]

The problem with discussing the reliability of old Mercedes vs new, or any other make for that matter, is that no one makes a simple new car anymore that would constitute a direct comparison. New cars seem an order of magnitude more complex which means there is so much more to go wrong. If a new simple car did exist it could be easily as reliable as any of the old ones. The quality that old cars had was simplicity. It will never happen though as there is no market for a simple high quality car or at least not a financially viable market. Most buyer want an ever increasing number of toys.

 

[219]

"Correlation does not imply causation." - I don't know the number but "Pacific rim" cars have substantially outsold "European manufacturers" for many years which implies that there will be more in the scrapyards and not that they are worse cars.

I'm not saying that they are better but your reasoning appears flawed.

They may possibly have outsold European manufacturers on the global , market ; I'm not sure that is true within the UK or even European Market where I think the majority of cars on the road are still Euro makes . One also has the tricky decision of what constitutes a European car with Nissan and others building cars here .

I remember now , doing the AV support for the European dealer launch of the first generation Nissan Primera at Ingliston Showgrounds in Edinburgh . We had the introduction and AV presentation ( which was my job - running a slide dissolve show with 15 Kodak S-AV2050 projectors linked with AVL DoveX dissolve units with sync track on a U-matic tape , centre portion of the screen ran video projection during a gap in the slides on the centre bank of projectors when the time came to show video of the car out on a road , and we had hired every 360mm lens we could find in Europe ! ) . The presentation was in the McRobert pavilion with representatives of every Nissan Dealer in Europe invited to see the new car . The AV show ran like clockwork , then the time came for the curtains to be opened to show the car lapping the racing circuit outside . There was some consternation .... the car didn't appear ... the organisers were on the radios .... where was the car ?

This brand new model , one of the first off the line at the new factory in Sunderland HAD BROKEN DOWN and couldn't be started - there was no spare car .

The car was eventually brought round on a trailer - but red faces all round and some unhappy bunnies from Nissan Head office .

Just reinforced my opinion of Jap cars .

 

[219]

The problem with discussing the reliability of old Mercedes vs new, or any other make for that matter, is that no one makes a simple new car anymore that would constitute a direct comparison. New cars seem an order of magnitude more complex which means there is so much more to go wrong. If a new simple car did exist it could be easily as reliable as any of the old ones. The quality that old cars had was simplicity. It will never happen though as there is no market for a simple high quality car or at least not a financially viable market. Most buyer want an ever increasing number of toys.

If such a 'simple' new car could be made at a lower price than other cars , it might find a market with people who would struggle to buy more expensive new cars . Alas the economics are not in its favour since much of the cost is in running the factory , paying the workforce , setting up a dealer network ... and the details of the car come some way down the scale .

 

[219]

The closest one might come now is to get something like the 984 mile W126 for sale in this Japanese dealer !

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[whitenemesis]

Mercedes-Benz are the original motor car, no other marque can hold a candle to MB's history. Up to relatively recent times if one owned an MB one 'had made it' no other cars could compare. MB were expensive, the choice of MD's doctors, dictators etc... Nowadays they are as common as any 'Ford' and they struggle with quality and reliability.
Japanese cars have history but it was pretty much 'mass-market' from the off. There were very expensive models (e.g. the LS460 from Lexus, which even today will see off any S class) but this wasn't the norm. More VW, if you like.
That all said once the Japanese entered the European markets they pushed Mercedes (and others) to add options that were once expensive extras, as standard. The Japanese always 'ploughed their own furrow' regarding styling but it sold and sold well world-wide.
Modern Japanese cars (and generally all far-eastern marques) are exceptionally well put together, very well specc'd and with exceptional warranties.

Take a Japanese made car of similar age and original cost to a Mercedes and the Japanese car will be less trouble, more reliable and better appointed than the Mercedes.

BTW I would take a classic Mercedes over any other marque any day, they are the motor car from year dot, an enviable reputation and history

 

[Deleted member 126251]

This all reminded me of a family friend who back in the early 70s took his S class (forget which model) for a service and then used his wife's Alfa to do his business that day. He struggled to drive her car (he owned a massive property development company and knew nothing about cars) & really did not like it. When he went back to the dealer to collect his car that evening, he arranged a trade in of his wife's car for an additional new S class.