Winter driving options

[Timmos]

Hi, Having owned 4x4s for the last 6yrs and now acquired a rear wheel drive Merc I was wondering what the best options are!
Do I go for a set of winter tyres,get a cheap runaround.etc
Don't really want to park it up for the winter as I enjoy driving it so much but also would like to keep it in one piece.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Tim

 

[BTB 500]

Do you get much snow? What would be the impact of not being able to drive if you did? I suspect a CLS55 would be 'a handful' on snow/ice without winter tyres!

I've driven my SL on snow a couple of times after being caught out by the weather and it was OK, going very carefully of course. I don't need the car for work, and the kids' schools and the shops are within walking distance. So we don't bother with winter tyres (the last significant snow we had down here was nearly 4 years ago).

 

[whitenemesis]

My S203, on winter tyres, was a very safe, stable drive on snow. Even in the bad snow of a few years back, I drove from Cambridge to Swindon through the thick of it, no problem at all.
Apart, that is, from having to dodge all those around me who weren't on winter tyres

And that's a very pertinent point. You may be perfectly in control in your MB on winter tyres but you are at the mercy of those that aren't correctly shod.

With regard to the CLS55, I drove out one frosty morn on nearly new summer tyres (<1000 miles old), my word "handful" doesn't come close.... Pulling away in C mode is ok'ish but forget any gear changes, instant loss of traction. Great fun but worth the risk? IMHO, no.

If you really have to drive in snow, get a cheap run around. Leave the CLS safely tucked away... But get some winter wheels/tyres for the CLS anyway, just in case the weather catches you out (I really should follow my own advice )

 

[Mr Kripling]

I've been fitting winter tyres since 2008 since I normally take the car when going skiing and since tyres are just a consumable, there's not much long-term extra cost.

Unfortunately, since my Passat 4motion decided to practice external combustion I've been left without a winter vehicle and so decided to put together a set for my CL this year.

I bought a manky set of 18" AMG IV wheels from fleaBay (£200):

Had them fully refurbished (£288) and got some 245/35/18 Nokian WR G4 tyres (£440) fitted:

Before:

After:

Okay, so I have to be a little bit more careful with my right foot (245 width at the back instead of 275) but they have an A rating for rain and are strangely quieter than the Conti CS5s that I had on previously...

And that's a very pertinent point. You may be perfectly in control in your MB on winter tyres but you are at the mercy of those that aren't correctly shod.

I can attest to this after getting caught in a snowstorm around Epernay a few years ago. The main road went up a slight hill so one car would get stuck and the one behind would think "I can do better than that", overtake only to get stuck alongside and block the oncoming lane...

 

[alex89]

i used to have a shogun with full all terrain setup, we used to go out towing stuck people up hills etc when the snow hit. The number of times we would come across hugely damaged parked cars on hills & even just normal roads because someone had been very carefully trying to get up/down parts them was unreal.

All it takes is for one person to be too brave and run out of ability & traction and they'll go very slowly but very painfully into you.

I wouldn't be risking my Merc out with other idiots around.

Shogun was awesome for it though, they're very cheap these days too.

 

[BTB 500]

Okay, so I have to be a little bit more careful with my right foot (245 width at the back instead of 275) but they have an A rating for rain

The problem is that if you look at the annual tests done in Germany etc. winter tyres have significantly less grip than summer ones when it's dry, and sometimes even in the wet at milder temperatures. This is reflected in the braking distances they measure.

So for sure you won't get stuck if it happens to snow badly, but the rest of the time you're at increased risk of running into something/someone if you have to do an emergency stop.

If you're driving in parts of Europe where there's a good chance of persistent snow then winter tyres are a no-brainer (even where they're not a legal requirement), but for many parts of the UK they may not be such a good idea IMHO. My wife is used to winter tyres (she's from the South of Germany) but doesn't want them here in sunny Berks.

 

[Mr Kripling]

The problem is that if you look at the annual tests done in Germany etc. winter tyres have significantly less grip than summer ones when it's dry, and sometimes even in the wet at milder temperatures. This is reflected in the braking distances they measure.

In mild and dry conditions a summer tyre will always do better but in cold/wet conditions it's certainly not as clear cut and since that's what we tend to get around the UK I think it's an acceptable trade-off. I've also always gone for Nokian's WR tyres which are really more of an all-season compound with a winter tread which seems to be a reasonable compromise.

 

[Lit91]

For the type of winter that we get in the UK, I don't think that it is worthwhile changing over the setup for winter months. Of course, if there is lots of spare cash available, then something like all season tyres would be of benefit for these months.

 

[tec]

I keep winter tyres on all year on my rear wheel drive Volvo as it only gets used occasionally.
The ride is a bit soft in summer heat but otherwise you just get used to driving on softer tyres.
I have a set of winter tyres and wheels for the Merc, but have not yet experienced a winter with them fitted.

 

[ahok19]

I bought a manky set of 18" AMG IV wheels from fleaBay (£200):

.

where do you bought it?

 

[st13phil]

Mr Kripling's solution of a set of suitable second-hand wheels shod with winter tyres is a good way forward if you want to use the CLS55 through the winter. Trust me when I say that it will be totally undriveable on summer tyres in snow on anything other than a completely flat surface, so a snowfall while you're out and about could be a real problem. However...

As others have said, there is a very real risk that someone else will run out of grip and/or ability in poor conditions and you end up with a bent CLS - which is an expensive proposition.

I drove my E63 through last winter on summer tyres, but I live in the south of the country and we had very mild weather with no snow. This year I'll probably do the same unless / until snow is forecast in which case I'll use the train to get to work if it's short-lived, or find a cheap small hatchback PDQ if it looks like we're set for a long snowy / icy spell.

 

[Chrishazle]

After my experience first winter we had the S203 I invested in a set of winter rims/tyres, did the same when we traded the S203 for the current S204. I swop wheels in late November and March - the winter tyres are excellent in the wet weather, were quite OK in the mild temperatures we had last winter (no noticable wear in 3500 miles including 120 mile motorway jaunts to dear daughter). Having 2 sets of wheels means I can give each a good clean and wax while off the car, and no chance of a tyre fitter damaging them while changing tyres twice a year.

Diesel, auto, RWD - admittedly I got very lucky with the set I found for the S204, but I would not be without the winter tyres!

 

[rf065]

I too had a 4x4 before the MB, but with winter tyres on, the Mercedes is far safer to drive in snow than the 4x4 was on it's M+S "summer" tyres.

Russ

 

[elisetype25]

The general evidence indicates that when ambient temps fall below 7C, that winter tyres start to perform better than the summer tyre.

So it isn't so much about snow, as it is to do with grip in general. Obviously winter tyres are designed to deal with snow, so in such extremes the difference is obvious, but below the 7C mark the general performance of winters will exceed summers. (Note this isn't an exact science and has more to do with the road surface temperature than anything else, which can significantly higher or lower than air temp based on a variety of factors).

However, during winter, even mild ones, a normal commute would involve driving in darkness when the roads will be at their coldest, and will also have cold areas patches on sheltered patches of road. This is another area where winters show there advantage in keeping things safe.

I'm always amused when some argue we don't need winter tyres, as they perform less well in summer. I would make an argument that driving sensibly in the summer with winter tyres is infinitely more sensible than summer tyres in winter.

In truth, in 95% of UK weather conditions and 95% of situations neither choice is likely to create a problem.

I need my car for work and travel the length of the country. Having been completely incapacitated on summer tyres in winter (down south!) I purchased some second hand OE wheels on ebay with part worn tyres. I got my monies worth 25k miles out of them before switching to a set of winter tyres.

It really is a very simple job to swap them over, and give the wheelarches a good clean at the same time.

My advise would be that if you have the cashflow, the space to store them and want to enjoy/need your car in winter then a set of winter tyres are well worth the investment. If not, then don't.

Regards, Neil
PS Agree with Russ. Previously drove a Subaru with fantastic grip, however a 4x4 on summer tyres is no comparison to 2 wheel drive on a set of winters in winter

 

[Timmos]

Thx for your views on this.
My main worry was that we live in an area with quite a few hills and I work shifts,every other week I'm heading off to work at 5.30am and one of the first vehicles on the road.
There's so much torque going through the back wheels I think I will probably be getting a runaround as suggested.
Bearing in mind for a decent set of winter tyres and some rims it would be in the region of 1k.
Probably turn out to be the mildest winter for years

 

[OneForTheRoad]

hope ur right .

 

[gegs88]

Thx for your views on this.
My main worry was that we live in an area with quite a few hills and I work shifts,every other week I'm heading off to work at 5.30am and one of the first vehicles on the road.
There's so much torque going through the back wheels I think I will probably be getting a runaround as suggested.
Bearing in mind for a decent set of winter tyres and some rims it would be in the region of 1k.
Probably turn out to be the mildest winter for years

You can pick up a swb pajero or shogun for well under a grand. Get one, throw a set of muds on and some sliders and rag round in that for the couple of weeks or snow we may or not get. I sold my modded shogun last year and to be honest my c class merc was as good on the roads in the terrible weather on a set of rainmasters with only a couple of slips but nothing drastic. Just buy the paj/shogun and have a couple of months getting it ready for winter.

 

[BTB 500]

The general evidence indicates that when ambient temps fall below 7C, that winter tyres start to perform better than the summer tyre.

So it isn't so much about snow, as it is to do with grip in general. Obviously winter tyres are designed to deal with snow, so in such extremes the difference is obvious, but below the 7C mark the general performance of winters will exceed summers.

The 7C figure is widely quoted but isn't actually borne out by independent tests. What Car? tests (done in Germany) showed a Golf averaged nearly 6 metres further to stop from 62 mph on winter tyres at 5.5C

Our dry test measured braking from 62mph. The temperature during the test averaged 5.5C, yet the summer tyres stopped our Volkswagen Golf test car earlier – in an average of 37.9 metres. The winter tyres took an average of 5.8 metres longer to pull up, and even the worst of the summer tyres – the Nankang Ultra Sport NS-2 – outperformed the best winter tyre, the Continental ContiWinterContact TS 830. It’s clear that winter tyres don’t always offer better stopping performance in sub-7C conditions.

In wet braking at 4C the winter tyres were better. But on a wet handling course at 5C the best tyre was a Continental summer tyre - they stated that 2C (not 7C) is the point at which their winter tyres start to show an advantage.

The summer tyres also performed slightly better than their winter counterparts in an aquaplaning test at 11C.

As you say, it's not an exact science and there are many variables. But it's definitely not as simple as winter tyres being better once the temperature hits 7C.

 

[Chrishazle]

Timmos, if you know the full spec of the wheels you're looking for and are patient, you can (if you're lucky) do far better than £1k for a set of winters on Ebay - my 16's in as new condition with as near as dammit new winter tyres (16" rims with 225/50's) cost about 20% of that!

 

[st13phil]

Timmos, if you know the full spec of the wheels you're looking for and are patient, you can (if you're lucky) do far better than £1k for a set of winters on Ebay - my 16's in as new condition with as near as dammit new winter tyres (16" rims with 225/50's) cost about 20% of that!

The problem is that for a CLS55 the OP is going to be looking at 18" or 19" rims to clear the calipers which means the price goes up substantially.

I considered buying a set of winter wheels & tyres for my E63 when I bought the car (I had a set for my E350CDI so i know how good they are), but frankly it would be cheaper to buy and run a winter hack!