winter tyres on rear only?

[SilverSaloon]

hi

i ordered 4 winter tyres on eBay.

anyway, only 2 have surfaced (had to go to depot and get them) and due to huge delays/backlog due to snow they are anticipating next week or longer for the delivery of the rest.

so, snow is on its way again and its very icy here.

would fitting the 2 tyres to the rear of the car (driving wheels) be ok in the short term to give me extra grip climbing snowy hills etc?

and then get the other 2 fitted to the front whenever they arrive?

or am i best off not putting any on?

cheers

derek

 

[whitenemesis]

Stopping and turning might be compromised? All the more so as you'll have grip to move forward.

 

[Stratman]

Definately put the tyres you have on the rear.

 

[grober]

I would have to say yes having done the same thing for the last 15 years or so. Only thing to watch is to slip the car into neutral when approaching a T junction since the rear end has more grip than the front so tends to push the car forward against the braked front wheels. You will gain both traction and sideways stability in snow/slush with the 2 tyres on the rear-do not put them on the front as Stratman already advised against . Try to exercise greater anticipation for braking and cornering.

 

[SilverSaloon]

thanks.

grober - i read your post about this on the "other side" too....

i do actually have a 3rd tyre.

this is a 185/65/15 whereas ALL my other tyres are 195/65/15

i wonder if i could put the 3rd tyre (185 one) on the front and the brand new all-season tyre i have on the other side aswell?

or do u reckon stick with the 2 winters on the rear and 2 all-season on the front???

cheers

derek

 

[Deleted member 37751]

One on the front and one on the back

 

[grober]

I would stick with the 2 all seasons on the front with the 2 winters on the back. There will very little difference between a 185/65/15 and a 195/65/15 tyre Best to keep both fronts the same as each other to maintain balance. Obviously once you get the other 2 winters you will want to put them on the front.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Be really careful..... There's no gain if gathering traction at the rear means the steer cannot make the turn, or brake in uniform, your type of post really worries me.

 

[andyb4.5]

I thought about doing this myself a few days ago... for about 5 minutes... Decided it was a bad idea for the reason wheels-inmotion mentions.
Real risk of understeering into ditch / pavement / oncoming traffic.
Could be an insurance issue if the worst was to happen - i.e. completely different tyre types fitted front & rear
Cheers
Andy

 

[Stratman]

This post made today would seem to show that extra grip on the rear wheels only is quite useful.

 

[LTD]

There is a Canadian video series on Youtube which goes into winter vs. summer tyres quite extensively using practical demonstrations.

They do not recommend mixing them at all.

How would your insurers react if you were involved in a bump where you lost front end grip ?

 

[krimat2005]

what about all drivers that "don't care" and have 4 diffrent, second hand tyres? (diffrent thread deepth, brand)

 

[SilverSaloon]

thing is, i'm not going to be driving any faster round corners than i would do anyway, on my current tyres..... i see them (and even when i get the 4 fitted) as an aid to get me up and down the snow covered hill where i live to the gritted main road.

i think i'll fit them to the rear and give it a bit of a test somewhere.

they will be on seperate alloys so i can easily swap back round etc.

i appreciate its not ideal but aslong as you're aware of the fact and drive accordingly i cant see it being a real issue? is there any real difference between winters on rear/all weather on front vs brand new rear vs well worn (but still legal) fronts, something that i've done before without issue.

it seems a shame to have to struggle and possibly get stuck on the snow when i have the tyres sitting there in the garage... i only just managed to get up the hill today - the dozy driver in front decided to slow down - luckily i anticipated this and kept a distance so when he did i didnt have to come to a stop - if i had done i would of never of got going, but with the winters on i'd hope i could of done.

 

[grober]

Be really careful..... There's no gain if gathering traction at the rear means the steer cannot make the turn, or brake in uniform, your type of post really worries me.

As does yours.

 

[grober]

There is a Canadian video series on Youtube which goes into winter vs. summer tyres quite extensively using practical demonstrations.

They do not recommend mixing them at all.

How would your insurers react if you were involved in a bump where you lost front end grip ?

Could you post a link to that video please. Thanks


In an era where insurance companies often use every trick in the book to avoid liability I have to admit that its possible that they might try to use the "mismatched tyres " as a get out clause. I doubt if there's much unbiased evidence about such a configuration. There are lots of studies/demonstrations on 4 summer tyres V 4 winter tyres and maybe even 4 winter tyres V 2 summer+2 winter tyres but I wonder if anyone has done a 4 summer tyres V 2 summer tyres +2 winter tyres ? [ specifically on the winter tyres on the rear on a rear drive car] I very much doubt it but I would be interested to see any evidence.

 

[grober]

thing is, i'm not going to be driving any faster round corners than i would do anyway, on my current tyres..... i see them (and even when i get the 4 fitted) as an aid to get me up and down the snow covered hill where i live to the gritted main road.

i think i'll fit them to the rear and give it a bit of a test somewhere.

they will be on seperate alloys so i can easily swap back round etc.

i appreciate its not ideal but aslong as you're aware of the fact and drive accordingly i cant see it being a real issue? is there any real difference between winters on rear/all weather on front vs brand new rear vs well worn (but still legal) fronts, something that i've done before without issue.

it seems a shame to have to struggle and possibly get stuck on the snow when i have the tyres sitting there in the garage... i only just managed to get up the hill today - the dozy driver in front decided to slow down - luckily i anticipated this and kept a distance so when he did i didnt have to come to a stop - if i had done i would of never of got going, but with the winters on i'd hope i could of done.

I for one will be interested in your experience in practice over a few days driving on such a set up. As always on any slippery surface anticipation is paramount.

 

[LTD]

Could you post a link to that video please.

[YOUTUBE]iKw3HffVJrk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[312 Sprinter]

I've run a RWD car with winter tyres on the rear only. It isn't ideal, but it'll work reasonably well in terms of actually keeping you moving. You do however need to be careful turning as it can cause significant understeer.

I'd always recommend fitting 4 winter tyres, it'll be far far better and safer than 2 just on the back. It is driveable though. Remember that your front brakes do most of the work. Winter tyres on the back only will give you decent traction, but you'll barely stop any better than people who are running summer tyres all round.

 

[grober]

Thanks for that link which I think demonstrates what I said in my last post. For the sake of argument lets assume that the "all weather tyres" referred to are "summer tyres." I would not dispute the findings of the demonstration in any way but as I said previously there was no study conducted on the relative merits of 4 summer[allweather] tyres V 2 summer[allweather] tyres +2 winter tyres [on the rear]. What the study does demonstrate however is that cornering on snow with 4 "summer" [allweather] tyres results in oversteer and spin a potentially catastrophic change of vehicle orientation presenting the side of the vehicle to potential impact or crossing to the opposite lane. With the vehicle shod with 2 summer [allweather] tyres on front and 2 winter tyres on the rear [ rear wheel drive] the predominant behaviour is understeer and a tendency to plough straight on. While this is not desirable it is inherently safer since general vehicle orientation to direction of travel is maintained affording greater occupant protection in the event of collision and is more recoverable as the vehicle scrubs off speed. Virtually all modern cars suspension /tyres are set up to behave in this way under normal circumstances for these very reasons.

I should perhaps add that this snow tyres argument would only apply to rear wheel drive vehicles-------front wheel drive vehicles have to shod with winter tyres all round not from the aforementioned stability point of view which still applies but because having only winter tyres on the rear means the traction advantage is of course lost.

In the end each individual has to make up their own mind by assessing the evidence for themselves. We take our lives in our hands whenever we step into a car by balancing risk V advantage and I would never deem to "tell" people what tyres to put on their car. I am just relating my experience of such a set up but others may well have a different opinion/experience which is fair enough .

 

[Apial]

Not sure if my experience will help, but here goes.

On the L200 (auto 4wd), I wore the front M+S AT tyres down to 4mm. This lead to aquaplaning when towing through deep water. I decided that a new pair were needed, but unfortunately I could not source the Pirelli replacement in the same tyre.

I managed to find a pair of Pirelli Scorpion Ice + Snow tyres and these were fitted to the front. The deep tread would give excellent water clearing properties and all was well until the snow arrived.

On ice I found that the rear ATs had far less grip than the Ice and Snow. This was demonstrated by my wife who managed a 180 spin turning a T-junction. This was because she dropped the accelerator whilst turning and failed to use opposite lock.

Looking at Pirellis web site I found that the Ice+Snow tyres should only be fitted as a set of 4 and not mixed with other types. Similar advice is also given by Michelin for their Pilot Alpins.

Another pair of Ice+Snow have been fitted to the rear wheels and the handling now feels very balanced compared to previously. The back end now sticks to the road and stopping distance on sheet ice is very good.

Had the L200 been involved in an accident due to loss of rear wheel control, I am sure someone would have found blame with the fitting of only two Ice+Snow tyres contrary to the manufacturers advice.

Bear in mind I am talkng about what might have seemed to be only a minor difference between a snowflake marked Ice+Snow tyre versus a M+S marked AT tyre, both of which would have been approved for winter use in Germany.

The fitting of only a pair of winter tyres with a pair of summer tyres would have been even more extreme and added to the fact I was on 4wd, I hate to think of how things would have gone in 2wd.