winter tyres on rear only?

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would fitting the 2 tyres to the rear of the car (driving wheels) be ok in the short term to give me extra grip climbing snowy hills etc?

Derek,

I would wait. Every manufacturer and motoring organisation says don't mix them, and for good reason.


  • Acceleration - will be good.
  • Cornering - lots of understeer, which is OK if you are prepared to deal with it, by going at the speed you would have gone at if you still had 4 summer tyres.
  • Braking - every braking action will be a handbrake turn (in effect). The rear wheels will do lots of braking, the front next to none. Not good at all, and quite possibly worse than if you had 4 summer tyres!
 
For the sake of argument lets assume that the "all weather tyres" referred to are "summer tyres." . :dk:

Fine but I think that the tyres they are using are not summer tyres but in fact are proper "all seasons" ( Nokian WR All Weather Plus) which are better suited to winter conditions than our UK "summer Tyres".

Had the test been conducted with summer tyres I very much doubt that the car would even have been able to move at all!

I had a set one year, and they were Ok, but they have been superceded by the improved WR G2, which is a better winter performance from an "all seasons" tyre. The WR tyre goes back to 2003 and here is an old review http://www.canadiandriver.com/2003/07/15/tire-test-nokian-wr-all-weather-plus.htm
 
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the fronts would be all-weather, yes
 
Succinct

The definitive "succinct compilation post" on the subject so far imho thanks to Jay, gIzzE and Bobby Dazzler:- Everyone's needs are different. I think for anyone who is travelling any distance on a daily basis should definitely have set of winter wheels/tyres as its just not worth not having them from a safety perspective. Those that have never used them say they don't need to, and those that have them on say they wouldn't be without them! If you need them you buy them. You know you need them when you get stuck and can't get to where you need to by other means.You know you needed them after you bought them.:thumb:
 
Bear in mind I am talkng about what might have seemed to be only a minor difference between a snowflake marked Ice+Snow tyre versus a M+S marked AT tyre, both of which would have been approved for winter use in Germany.


Another misconception I'm afraid. The M+S rating is virtually meaningless, compared to a tyre with the snowflake in the mountain symbol.

The snowflake in the mountain "cold weather or winter" tyre is approved for all conditions below 7C, including "extreme snow or ice". To qualify for a M+S rating, a tyre requires more than 25% of the tread design to be open, thus giving traction in muddy fields etc.

That is the only criteria it has to satisfy, which would make it better than a summer tyre but fall a long way short of a proper winter tyre. Fitting a combination of both is not advisable.

Russ
 
SS: I can identify with your predicament and say fit the winter tyres and exercise extreme caution when A) Moving - just keep reminding yourself that you only have grip at the rear. Use minimal braking, let the engine slow you. Akin to me using snow chains on the rear only. The real point is traction - better than being stuck or spinning off into a ditch. But I promise you the traction advantage is phenomenal. You MUST remember that the grip up front is minimal by comparison.
B) On bare tarmac the grip may well differ axle to axle, so drive accordingly.
Assuming you are a sensible and practical man, you will be fine.

The only other alternative is to wait until you have all 4 winter tyres, which is pretty much the same as saying stay indoors - if you need the traction as I do....
 
Another misconception I'm afraid. The M+S rating is virtually meaningless, compared to a tyre with the snowflake in the mountain symbol.

The snowflake in the mountain "cold weather or winter" tyre is approved for all conditions below 7C, including "extreme snow or ice". To qualify for a M+S rating, a tyre requires more than 25% of the tread design to be open, thus giving traction in muddy fields etc.

That is the only criteria it has to satisfy, which would make it better than a summer tyre but fall a long way short of a proper winter tyre. Fitting a combination of both is not advisable.

Russ


I thought that too, but am now running Nokian Hakkapelitas, which are H rated M+S tyres, and they are amzing in the snow-I read lots of reviews beforehand and even the Scandinavians rave about them, and say in many cases they are better than "proper" winter tyres.I'm giving them a go, but may find I'll try Uniroyals next time and find them better, then go on to Coni's and find they are useless. Tyres are very very subjective- having worked in the tyre industry you find that drivers and cars are individual, what works with one doesn't work with another. Some people swore by Pirelli, others at them, some cars were totally different on anything but Michelins, Some cars would wear out tyres in 4,000 miles, others came in at 12 years old and 100,000 miles still on their original rears. Would you buy a pair of shoes just because the manufacturer promised they would be comfortable in the snow and great on the football field?
You guys can argue all year about whats best- you won't get a definative answer!

Winter tyres work, no question, but there are the same issues and opinions as there are with summer tyres.. how many discussions have been on here about them?

here's one of the reviews on my tyres.. clear as mud. These don't have the snowflake and are marked M+S...

"The Nokian NRWs are a bit of a mystery to me with respect to their "winter tire" rating. They were reccomended to me as a good snow tire that does not sacrifice dry traction, as the city streets of Toronto are usually pretty bare. I do insist on having a winter tire for those rare times where there is snow, slush and ice, as well as to save wear and tear on my summer tires and wheels. The European Nokian tire site lists the NRW as a pure winter tire for "alpine" conditions. The North American Nokian tire site actually lists them under all-season as a good snow/slush/ice tire that can handle hot weather. Either way they are listed as a good winter tire that does not sacrifice dry handling and provides a quiet ride - pretty much exactly what I was looking for."
 
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We tend to get much too technical and overthink the "modern" car...

Pre radial tires and front wheel drive it was standard in the USA to use "snow tires" on the rear and just a standard bias ply on the front.
Some states required by law that the change over be made before the first day of winter

Couldn't get any more of a mismatch !!!!

The "snow tire" was a heavily cleated tread and was also available with metal studs to grip on ice.
There was no such thing as "winter compound" tires...

For many years 6 to 7 liter plus 400HP high torque rear drive American iron weighing 2 tons + used this combo in snow conditions much more severe then the UK will ever see...
You come to a halt in 10CM of snow what would you do with 100CM of lake effect snow in Buffalo NY....

Tires regardless of what they are mean nothing if the driver isn't adept to driving in snow and ice...

Sometimes one gets too much confidence in his equipment such as tires ABS, ASR, skid control, whatever and forgets to use caution and skill in inclement driving conditions !

Ed A.
 
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Neighbour farmer has re-fitted a particular set of tyres to the LR Discovery he uses in the course of his work as they are better in snow than whatever is standard issue from LR. Bizarrely though, he describes them as being rubbish in mud! Great in snow, rubbish in mud!

By contrast, the Kleber Quadraxers I got on Thursday, looking at them, I wouldn't have expected them to be that much better than the Exalto summer tyre, having a pretty closed tread pattern. The difference in snow though is night and day!

More to this tyre malarky than meets the eye!
 
I fitted Bridgestone Winter tyres to the rears on my W211 E55 about 10 days ago .... what a revelation !!

Last year I was effectively marooned in the house due to a snow covered drive of about 100yds ......... The image shows the drive first thing this morning .......

Off I set (no food in the house) and trundled down the drive (slight incline from the road all the way to the house) - effectively letting the car idle down the drive. The main roads were untreated - the A31 Hogs Back down to one lane at about 20mph.

Got to the Supermarket with a few holdups due to cars totally unable to move up slight inclines - all negotiated successfully :) So off to fill the car with provisions .....

Now the journey back ......... other vehicles traveling even slower now - one poor woman reduced to driving at about 5mph and gripping the steering wheel in a panic stricken way along the A31 ........

Arrived at the bottom of the drive ... slight trepidation ........ no problem at all - straight up the drive - no hint of wheel slip - no yellow triangle :)

There are limits however ........ after this progress I tried to drive up the slope to my garage (approx 30ft 1in6 incline) - Not a cat in hells chance - halfway was about its limit :) But considering all else - the Winters are superb.

65773_10150106794545086_655980085_8016749_864891_n.jpg


The comments made by others regarding taking care over steering/braking etc are absolutely true. The Winters give you grip but unless you have them on the front as well you are limited by the capability of your front tyres (ie in the same boat as everyone else for steering and stopping).

If I could find two tyres for the front as well - I would put them on immediately :)
 
With regards to OP...

Firstly, I agree with WIM.

As others said:

Winter tyres on the driven wheels (front or rear - depending on the car) will improve traction. Winter tyres on the front wheels will improve steering.

1. Summer tyres at the front and winter tyres at the rear will cause under-steer on snow/ice slippery surface. Braking will not be improved.

2. Winder tyres at the front and summer tyres at the rear will cause over-steer on snow/ice slippery surface. This will also cause unstable braking which could result in a 360 degrees skid.

The question of which is better to have, an under-steering car or an over-steering one has been debated many times over the years, not necessarily in relation to snow or tyres.

But the bottom line is that the car's dynamics is designed around the idea that all four corners will have the same level of grip. MB do say in the owners manual that all tyres must be of same make and model.

If you deviate from this, you are in chassis-tuning territory... you may improve on the original MB design, or not, as the case may be, but generally speaking you are pretty much on your own.
 
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With regards to OP...

As others said:

1. Summer tyres at the front and winter tyres at the rear will cause over-steer on snow/ice slippery surface.

2. Winder tyres at the front and summer tyres at the rear will cause under-steer on snow/ice slippery surface.

I think you got that ar$e for t1t..:p
 
Fitting a combination of both is not advisable.

Russ

Dead right. So the advice is definately only use four tyres of the same type or even the identical pattern if the manufacturer advises so.
 
Dead right. So the advice is definately only use four tyres of the same type or even the identical pattern if the manufacturer advises so.

Just remember folks that a set of new winter tyres may cost more than some of our cars, not everyone is a car enthusiast and many people out there shouldn't even be allowed to have a drivers licence. Have a look at some of the vids on You Tube. The best winter tyres money can buy will be of no use to you if the driver jumps out of the car when it starts to skid.. The person in their Maestro sliding towards you with 4 wheels locked, and terror in their faces won't do anything different because you have Michelin Alpin's fitted.

Do all you can to stay safe within your own budget etc, but always be prepared to be in the minority..
 
Drove today 1 mile to the shops and back in the height of the 'blizzard'.

Strangely, this is the first time I actually drive in snow (well in the UK anyway - I have driven on snow in Europe). I guess that proves that on average the weather in the South East is indeed milder than elsewhere in the UK...

Driving on fresh snow with my summer tyres was quite manageable. In fact the biggest problem was the poor visibility due to the heavy snowfall.

The ESP light flickered happily from time to time, and the ABS kicked-in in almost every stop. Mind you we were all driving very slowly and keeping sufficient distance from each other.

The car only actually skidded when crossing another road - it seems that it was not happy with crossing tracks at 90 degrees for some reason. Winter tyres would have probably helped here.

Was the drive safe? yes. Was it manageable? yes. Would I want to travel any long distance in these conditions without proper winter tyres? Not really. Safe progress is very slow, and requires concentration - which would be difficult to maintain continuously for a long time.
 
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Well, I got caught in the blizzard on the M25 (thanks Met Office) and it was the worst driving experience of my life. I was fine, I had traction, grip and braking control. Unfortunately few others did, and seeing two BMW M3s fishtailing across two lanes, with cars scattering around them was hairy enough, but almost being hit by another BMW 3 series skidding across almost the entire width of the M4 with no traction at the junction with the A312 caused me to switch to the A4 and just drive gently in. A W209 240 CLK couldn't even get traction enough to climb over a shallow canal bridge on the A4, one you wouldn't normally even notice. They got a push, fortunately.

My tyres past the test with flying colours and helped give me braking and traction abilities to cope with the other loons, such as the Addison Lee minicab nutter who thought six inches was a safe distance from my rear - having control I could brake more gently and slowly to avoid the nutter tailending me, and could get over to let him pass.

I saw five ambulances in the two hour ordeal, at least three accidents, and enough BMWs that should have been abandoned that at least I kept my spirits up.

I also concluded as we inched in on the M4 at speeds no different to some rush hours, that the reason we come to a halt with little snow is that we have such full roads in the South East, any tiny disruption creates havoc.

I shall be staying at home til the snow clears.
 
But the bottom line is that the car's dynamics is designed around the idea that all four corners will have the same level of grip. MB do say in the owners manual that all tyres must be of same make and model.

If you deviate from this, you are in chassis-tuning territory... you may improve on the original MB design, or not, as the case may be, but generally speaking you are pretty much on your own.

But the thought that has gone into the chassis tuning is dependent on a certain level of lateral G being developed to invoke weight transfer through the anti-roll bars etc, a level of G that will never be reached on snow..
When it comes to getting food home, the priorities change. And traction is all!

The person in their Maestro sliding towards you with 4 wheels locked, and terror in their faces won't do anything different because you have Michelin Alpin's fitted.

But you might be in a position to move out of their path...
 
here's one of the reviews on my tyres.. clear as mud. These don't have the snowflake and are marked M+S...

"The Nokian NRWs are a bit of a mystery to me with respect to their "winter tire" rating. ."

How long have you had them?
 
well they are now on the rear only and i've been driving out and about and not noticed any difference so far.

i also drove on some compacted snow/ice without problem, and without any problem with the all-seasons on the front

hopefully the other 2 tyres will arrive shortly
 

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