Winter Tyres

[Mercy1]

You've just summed up why you don't detect any difference: you don't push anywhere near the limit in normal driving - and there's nothing wrong with that.

So, although you don't notice any difference in your normal driving that doesn't prove that a difference isn't there: you just don't drive hard enough to notice it.

Well I posed the question: Are you all driving on the edge? It strikes me as absurd that people can blissfully say they can feel a difference when they are driving in the wet at a certain temperature. They must be pushing it, when maybe the roads would be safer for all of us if they didn't .
I am always more than comfortable driving on good summer tyres in the rain at 7 degrees or lower.
I will be using winter tyres this winter, but that will be to cope with snow and ice, not what I would term "normal" driving conditions which I will handle with plain old common sense defensive and safe driving.
It's kept me accident free for more than 45 years (touch wood!)...

 

[Sp!ke]

Being a motorcyclist, pretty much every journey I deliberately apply the brakes, front and back to the point of loss of traction to establish grip levels and re-familiarise myself with the controls and how much pressure it takes before things go sideways. Two wheels, no ABS, wet roads and blind drivers means you focus on this sort of thing and hone those skills. Failure to do so results in injury.

In a car I also do the same now and again because without knowing where the limit is you never know how close or far away you really are from it or whether in an emergency one should attempt to steer round and obstacle or brake. Having a rough idea what your vehicle is capable of is key.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I don't drive on the edge. I just like to know that when I find myself in extreme conditions, then I have the right tyre - whether that be snow on the road, or an emergency stop at 6 degrees.

It doesn't happen often, and it doesn't cost me any more than sticking to summer tyres - just a different cash flow. That's good value for the potential performance in reserve.

 

[Dryce]

I don't drive on the edge. I just like to know that when I find myself in extreme conditions, then I have the right tyre - whether that be snow on the road, or an emergency stop at 6 degrees.

Sadly this is indicative of EXACTLY the problem caused by the existing lack of information and the magic 7 degrees.

You might be driving so called summer tyres with a particular manufacturer's compound that happens to be better than the winter tyres at 6 degrees on a particular type of surface condition.

But thanks to the lack of hard facts/info you just don't know what the margin is between one tyre and another - and the media and advertising parrots '7 degrees' with zero explanation.

 

[st13phil]

Well I posed the question: Are you all driving on the edge? It strikes me as absurd that people can blissfully say they can feel a difference when they are driving in the wet at a certain temperature. They must be pushing it, when maybe the roads would be safer for all of us if they didn't .

I don't drive on the edge on public roads, but I do like to know where the edge is.

Sp!ke summed it up very well: I'm a biker too and the habit of finding out how much grip you actually have before it all goes pear-shaped is a fundamental skill you have to develop to keep out of hospital. Like him I carry that over to car driving. That's why I'm the one who makes sure I adjust my following distance in the wet, and why my brake pads last much longer than most people's. But none of that stops me wanting the most grip I can get in any given circumstances.

 

[corned]

In a car I also do the same now and again because without knowing where the limit is you never know how close or far away you really are from it or whether in an emergency one should attempt to steer round and obstacle or brake. Having a rough idea what your vehicle is capable of is key.

I do this every time I set out when there's snow on the road. Being on a sleepy cul-de-sac means getting used to never seeing a gritter or plough, so it's every man for himself. As the road slopes downwards from my house, it's a good test of grip under braking. From then on, I know what I'm dealing with.

I did get caught out once though. The road was very wet, uniformly shiny and wet. Or so I thought - it was black ice. I have never seen it quite that perfect before. It just looked like it had rained, but it was solid and perfectly transparent. My dry cleaners saw some business that morning.

 

[Mercy1]

Being a motorcyclist, pretty much every journey I deliberately apply the brakes, front and back to the point of loss of traction to establish grip levels and re-familiarise myself with the controls and how much pressure it takes before things go sideways.

I'm a biker too and the habit of finding out how much grip you actually have before it all goes pear-shaped is a fundamental skill you have to develop to keep out of hospital.

Sorry guys, I don't buy your reasoning...(and I too have been riding motorcycles since I was 17)...
So you set off in the rain (temperature say around 7 degrees, no danger of ice) and you feel the need to find the edge. But what edge? The edge your driving/riding on at point A has no bearing whatsoever on Point B where you might need to make that emergency stop - eg, more puddling, different road surface, etc, etc.
Testing for ice at a near zero temperature is logical (we all do that, don't we?), but that's another subject.
And testing your brakes is sensible too, but it won't tell you anything you don't already know about a road surface in rain!
IMHO, experience will tell you the potential dangers of wet driving/riding and the important thing is to adapt your driving as a matter of course.
Quite frankly, a guy who is driving 5 mph slower because of the conditions is far more likely to deal with an emergency than the guy who doesn't recognise the potential foolhardiness of relying on his winter tyres to pull him up in time.
All I am saying is that sensible driving counts far more than anything else when it comes to road safety .

 

[flowrider]

If during the months of October to February we have a warm day or two do you guys on winter tyres swap them back with summer tyres and then when the colder weather comes back put the winter tyres back on?

If summer tyres deteriorate at temps below 7 degrees C do winter tyres do the same above 7 degrees C?

David

 

[flowrider]

Who really drives their car to the edge of its capability? Other than on a race track this is not possible.

Of course boy racers are exempt from the above statement but I would argue it is not the cars capability but the drivers that is on the edge.

David

 

[flowrider]

Sorry guys, I don't buy your reasoning...(and I too have been riding motorcycles since I was 17)...
So you set off in the rain (temperature say around 7 degrees, no danger of ice) and you feel the need to find the edge. But what edge? The edge your driving/riding on at point A has no bearing whatsoever on Point B where you might need to make that emergency stop - eg, more puddling, different road surface, etc, etc.
Testing for ice at a near zero temperature is logical (we all do that, don't we?), but that's another subject.
And testing your brakes is sensible too, but it won't tell you anything you don't already know about a road surface in rain!
IMHO, experience will tell you the potential dangers of wet driving/riding and the important thing is to adapt your driving as a matter of course.
Quite frankly, a guy who is driving 5 mph slower because of the conditions is far more likely to deal with an emergency than the guy who doesn't recognise the potential foolhardiness of relying on his winter tyres to pull him up in time.
All I am saying is that sensible driving counts far more than anything else when it comes to road safety .

Totally agree.

David

 

[stroudwaterboy]

An interesting argument has developed, I will throw my threepenny worth in.

I spend more than six months of the year working in the Wallon area of Belgium, come the autumn you will see little vans everywhere visiting putting on winter tyres. In bad weather the roads just keep running and they have a larger percentage of RWD cars there than here.

In fact it is a running joke that in the UK a snow flake has fallen and that means all traffic has stopped. I also get oh look 15 cms of snow outside and we can still drive! Then of course I get people asking if I will be able to cope or would I like a lift.

 

[Sp!ke]

If during the months of October to February we have a warm day or two do you guys on winter tyres swap them back with summer tyres and then when the colder weather comes back put the winter tyres back on?

If summer tyres deteriorate at temps below 7 degrees C do winter tyres do the same above 7 degrees C?

David

Short answer is no, not really.

Many people leave winter tyres on all year round as a better compromise to having summer tyres all year round for their given climate.

My old 190E has had winter tyres on for the last 12 months and despite a trip down to the med in summer with scorching temperatures there doesnt seem to be any increased wear.

Mrs Spikes Volvo has had winter tyres permanently on for three years and only now have they hit the 4mm winter tyre limit.

 

[rf065]

If summer tyres deteriorate at temps below 7 degrees C do winter tyres do the same above 7 degrees C?
David

Yes, but not as much.
It is safer to run winter tyres all year round and accept slightly less grip in hot weather than to run summer tyres which can be lethal in winter.

Russ

 

[Spinal]

While I try to swap tyres, I tend to use winters all year round... On the W202, the winters were still going strong 3 years after having them fitted... (and then they crossed the Sahara desert... yes... on winter tyres)

M.

 

[st13phil]

Sorry guys, I don't buy your reasoning...(and I too have been riding motorcycles since I was 17)...

Buy whatever you like; I'll continue to make myself aware of general grip levels in a way that's safe to do so whenever I perceive that conditions warrant it.

All I am saying is that sensible driving counts far more than anything else when it comes to road safety .

No argument with that.

I drove through last winter in my W204 on summer tyres (including probably something like 300 or 400 miles in aggregate on snow) and managed to avoid having any near misses let alone hitting anything, but I've chosen to fit winter tyres to my W212 this year so that I have more than the wafer-thin margin that I had last year. If you don't want that additional margin then that's your prerogative

BTW, I also replace my summer tyres when they're down to 3mm because I value the much improved wet grip that affords over and above running them to the legal limit. If you want any legal part-worns just let me know

 

[Soltan]

Cold Weather Tyres from £?969​

Snow and ice are obvious winter risks, but at temperatures below 7°C, wet conditions can be just as dangerous. Our solution to protect you is Cold Weather Tyres.
These innovative tyres are produced with higher levels of natural rubber to help them remain supple at low temperatures. This suppleness allows the tread to form an effective contact with the road surface, providing better grip and handling for braking, accelerating and cornering.
The results are impressive. In chilly, wet conditions Cold Weather Tyres can decrease your stopping distances by 10%, and up to 50% on icy or snowy surfaces.

Looks like the Main Dealers are getting in on the act!!!!!

Just rang my dealer for a quote (suggest you sit down for the next bit) - 4 winter tyres and alloys (18") - £1989.98 - Thought he was making an offer on my car! Totally lost my train of thought after that, forgot to even ask what tyres they were

 

[flowrider]

Just rang my dealer for a quote (suggest you sit down for the next bit) - 4 winter tyres and alloys (18") - £1989.98 - Thought he was making an offer on my car! Totally lost my train of thought after that, forgot to even ask what tyres they were

OMG..........have a look at www.tyremen.co.uk for a comparison. Tells use what the price comes out to.

David

 

[PXW]

Not done winter tyres before, but have convinced Mrs PXW it's a good idea after the debacle of the last couple of winters, when frankly my car might as well have been on slicks for all the grip it had. Just placed my order from mytyres for conti TS830s. Paid a bit extra to get the higher loading since I've got the wagon. Bought 4 alloys from NickMercedes (cheers, Nick!) for winter use. They had some superficial staining on them so have spent a bit of time rubbing them down and repainting them - now all looking good. Roll on the October snow they've been forecasting!

Anyone know if I'll still need paving slabs in the boot on snow/ice?

Popped into the local fitters to get the tyres on the rims. Total deal amounted to about £720 for genuine MB alloys and the brand new TS830s. I'm happy with that, especially as I have probably only got about 3000 miles or so left on my current tyres, so apart from the layout for winter rims this isn't really additional cashflow at all. So, all good, just waiting for the temperature to drop about 20 degrees before I get the jack out and swap the wheels

 

[flowrider]

........... So, all good, just waiting for the temperature to drop about 20 degrees before I get the jack out and swap the wheels

Now I am worried that there might be cars driving around on winter tyres in conditions where summer tyres would be better.

This thread is making me paranoid. :bannana:

David

 

[Soltan]

OMG..........have a look at www.tyremen.co.uk for a comparison. Tells use what the price comes out to.

David

Interestingly they only do 17" wheels for my car, I'm currently running 18" so not a like for like comparison.

For what it's worth:
17" Design B Wheels - £370
Continental TS180S - £760

Plus VAT
Total = £1130