With cars - are we getting too soft?

[Mattns]

I remember my Dad teaching me how to set the points and adjust timing with a timing light, on a 1.6 cross flow Ford Escort. It was such an illuminating lesson!

We just use different tools these days to achieve the same thing? Or the engine mgmt does it for us?

Having non-working "luxuries" does become annoying at times...!!

I got much more satisfaction adjusting points, setting timing and balancing carbs than I do figuring how to connect Bluetooth or why the sat nav voice commands are a different volume to radio!! the latter two really tick me off as does the car preferring to link to my wife's phone rather than mine when we are both in the car, this seems sexist to me

 

[Ted]

I love technology especially in cars, and especially where it relates to safety.
As already said, this has made cars incredibly reliable and hugely safer.
On a cold morning you can get into your pre-heated car, the ptc heater has already started to warm up the inside, have a nice warm steering wheel, listen to your digital radio which will alert you of any traffic problems, and drive safely off, knowing that if you get distracted, the collision detection and active brake intervention will kick in. It's brilliant. What's not to like?

But I also ride a motorcycle. it's a raw, and at times visceral experience. You experience everything. You feel the changes in temperature as your surroundings change. You get the smells - honeysuckle in the late spring whilst riding through a village. You can feel the engine working and when it is labouring. You control it, not with a wheel, but by your body. No ABS, and you balance your braking by controlling the front and rear - different amounts for different situations. You read the road better than any car - a small patch of spilled diesel on a roundabout, leaves across the road, or a shady dip on a frosty morning. Being single track it is easy to get it wrong and you are always aware of the consequences.
I love it. My bike is just about as basic as it gets. I doesn't even have a rev counter - no need, you change gear according to the situation and needs. It even has a choke.

Robert M Pirsig famously summed it up thus

“In a car you're always in a compartment, and because you're used to it you don't realize that through that car window everything you see is just more TV. You're a passive observer and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame.
On a cycle the frame is gone. You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is overwhelming.”

So for me, while I love the technology, the bike will win out every time simply because I am experiencing motoring at its very finest.

Except on a cold frosty morning of course.

 

[Mactech]

I love technology especially in cars, and especially where it relates to safety.
So for me, while I love the technology, the bike will win out every time simply because I am experiencing motoring at its very finest.

Except on a cold frosty morning of course.

Well I guess I'm torn between the two extremes. I understand basic (I have a Defender!) and my son races Flatrack without a front brake and I've ridden that....scary!
But I can enjoy a bike now with some nods to technology which means I can ride on a frosty morning. The ABS, heated grips and my modified screen and 'paddle shift' gears all help but you are still very connected to the road. I actually collected it on a snowy day!
The one thing I value more than most is an outside temperature gauge. Odd but true. It's just information I must have!

 

[Yugguy]

Syncromesh is evolution, abs is evolution, power-steering even.

Keyless Go is fluff. Lane assistance is fluff. Park assist is fluff. If you can't park a car because you are unaware of its spatial dimensions then you should NOT have a licence. Too many drivers of SUVs particularly seem to have no concept whatsoever of their car's size.

I like passive driver aids - for instance the car applying the brakes harder than you can in an emergency, but this is if I have chosen to brake. I really don't want a car that decides for itself to steer or brake for me.

Where's the real breakthroughs? Revolution, not fluff.

Tesla - could make a fortune with cheap, reliable, accessible electric cars, but instead get bogged down in technology to the nth degree that doesn't work.

I fully expect to be called a dinosaur.

 

[Masklin]

Not a dinosaur, no. There’s always a place for traditionalists and preserving the past as society and technology moves forward.

Me, I believe in progress. I’ve even got the Public Service Broadcasting t-shirt to prove it

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[Yugguy]

Oh I love progress.

Today I am working from home via wireless and VPN. This lunchtime I need to make a decision on which mesh wireless solution to go for.

This is awesome.

I love my Sky+ and catchup and all that goes with that.

Just a couple of examples.

I won't however, be fitting smart light bulbs and their ilk as I am quite capable of getting off my **** and using a light switch. If I was old or infirm then yes, I'd be wanting them.

 

[Alex225]

Syncromesh is evolution, abs is evolution, power-steering even.

Keyless Go is fluff. Lane assistance is fluff. Park assist is fluff....

Absolutely agree. Some technology has been an evolution for making driving better and that bit easier without doing things for you entirely.

I am 36 so not ancient but not young either but I see certain technologies in the same way. They're nice little toys but just a nice little plus not essential. I don't think some of the toys that feature in cars today can be considered up there with some of the real advances like those mentioned.

The only thing I can think of that may be comparable are some of these technologies that prevent you rear ending the car in front but despite that until a car is fully autonomous, I'm not wowed but 'fluff' to coin your phrase mate.

 

[190]

I'm still setting points on my 39 year old bike. It's not a hardship to do it at the annual service. More important, it's 100% reliable and even if it wasn't it would be easily fixed.

I think the OP's point was we are now judging our cars on frivolous farkles or fluff as yugguy put it, rather than quality engineering and reliability. I'd give up some fluff with pleasure in exchange for reliable ignition locks and durable timing chains. Marketing departments know that people are increasingly ranking cars on the quality and sophistication of the interior rather than other aspects so that's where their priorities lie. As long as farkles are reliable then progress is a good thing but leave out the fluff that we never asked for in the first place.

 

[littleowl]

On dipping in this forum for some months now, it is littered with such posts as:

My car software doesn't contact my new phone/doesn't get the latest DAB stations/etc...
My parking sensors don't work...
Why don't my headlights come on automatically?
My reverse camera no longer works.
My mirrors don't dip.
My key fob won't lock/unlock/wind windows down...
etc etc etc

Now admittedly, I'm an old bloke with my first car being new in the 70s, but my biggest issue then is that sometimes it wouldn't start, and a can of WD40 use to cure it! LOL

Are we all just too soft now?

I also had my first car in the 70s, a Triumph Herald convertible which cost me £150 (but don’t consider myself old ). It used to leak, had rust on the front wing, conked out on a regular basis but I coveted it until the engine blew up on Mill Hill Broadway! However I also appreciate the ‘conveniences and comforts’ that modern cars offer, no they aren’t all needed and I agree that with all the software used there are times it can be a challenge to find the cause of a particular problem. And that sometimes a warning light can have several different causes. I have a VW T5 van and the engine management light came on - I was led to believe this was connected to emissions somehow but as soon as I took it into the garage the mechanic said ‘that’ll be the glow plugs’ and it was! Another random occurrence was when my wipers stopped working. I took it to the VW garage and they said, ‘it’s because your bonnet wasn’t fully closed’. Well I would have never known that and nowhere in the manual did it say that would happen ...

I suppose though it’s the same as everything else in modern life - more and more technology that isn’t essential but makes life easier. That is, when they work . It’s hard to avoid unless you want to make a ‘New Life in the Wild’ . But we can try to resist it for a while

 

[Yugguy]

I got much more satisfaction adjusting points, setting timing and balancing carbs than I do figuring how to connect Bluetooth or why the sat nav voice commands are a different volume to radio!! the latter two really tick me off as does the car preferring to link to my wife's phone rather than mine when we are both in the car, this seems sexist to me

This is because those things are physical, concrete, you can hold them and you can see the end results of your work. It's the same reason why working in IT can often be unsatisfying. There is nothing to hold at the end of it.

If I won the lottery/had my time again I'd be a classic car restorer.

I'm not against tech but honestly, there's really nothing that a W205 or other latest model of car has that my W204 doesn't and that I would want.

 

[Masklin]

One thing is for sure, if I’m going to have an accident and crash heavily the modern fluffymobile wins every time.

 

[BTB 500]

The technology we have now will write modern cars off as they get older. Your average family saloon or hatchback will be beyond economic repair when electrical/electronic components start to fail at 12+ years old.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

The technology we have now will write modern cars off as they get older. Your average family saloon or hatchback will be beyond economic repair when electrical/electronic components start to fail at 12+ years old.

I think that's true of a time when the type of technology we see in modern cars was evolving buty now that it's more mature and technology has moved to using less moving parts that might change.

A lot of the recent advancements are around stuff that you might not miss if it broke, my most recent car can download music via Deezer at my spoken command, if that broke I could live without it I suppose, it's cool as 10 Bensons though!

 

[BTB 500]

I think that's true of a time when the type of technology we see in modern cars was evolving buty now that it's more mature and technology has moved to using less moving parts that might change.

I'm not so sure, I doubt even main dealers will be able to diagnose & fix complex electronic issues on the cars of today in 20 years time. They will be "no longer supported", like obsolete software packages. And will replacements for all the various sensors, modules, display screens, etc. still be available anyway?

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I'm not so sure, I doubt even main dealers will be able to diagnose & fix complex electronic issues on the cars of today in 20 years time. They will be "no longer supported", like obsolete software packages. And will replacements for all the various sensors, modules, display screens, etc. still be available anyway?

Cars will be very, very different in 20 years time.

 

[rockits]

I understand and appreciate tech after being in the IT/Tech game for 25 years. For me we have gone a little too far IMHO in a car. More to go wrong, more to fix and quicker to write off or more expansive to replace because of it.

I am old school, like cars with quirks, should and character. I like being at home in the garden with no tech not even a mobile just looking around the garden and staring at the stars.

However there is some tech that is very useful in cars of course. Anything that can prevent accidents such as collision avoidance or brake assist etc. However some tech IMHO seems to potential cause accidents and is not safe in a car.

As always it is about balance and getting it right.

Do I went a Tesla S that can do 0-60 in 2.5 secs in silence.....NO.....NEVER! Give me an old school V6, V8, V10 or V12 any day [emoji6]

 

[MancMike]

It's the same reason why working in IT can often be unsatisfying. There is nothing to hold at the end of it.

I know this all too well. You get satisfaction from writing something that does a job, or improving something, or making something execute 10x faster, but when you're on your way home, you're aware if someone pulled the plugs out of the servers, there's basically no fruits of your labour anymore.

It's the reason I like to fix things, build things, etc.

 

[Dalton]

Technology is great when it works

 

[rockits]

Technology is great when it works

Not always. The amount of time I have seen a couple in a restaurant both on phones and not even talking to each other. These are the social challenges and a 1st world problem that has been created by tech that works.....sometimes at a social cost.

 

[Edd1968]

We as humans have come to expect more, faster, now etc. When our phones don't load something within a second we're frustrated. Remember old dial-up !!
If you speak to any marketing dept of any car manufacturer they will say this is what our customers want in there products. I get that. But I feel gone are the days of offer simplicity for the sake of simplicity. Having written that I also agree that aids that can help prevent an accident or protect in the event of one are a good thing.
I was sat with my team the other day at work, the subject briefly got onto cars. I have a new member who was waxing lyrical about her new mini. Fair enough, not my cup of tea but I asked her would she ever consider a 'proper' mini as I described it. "oh no not that tiny little thing, I can't stand the thought of having to wind up the windows with a handle" she said. She'd never had a car with a handle for winding up windows. Wtf.
I rest my case.
I embrace technology in certain situations, I'm typing this on a touch screen devise that I could have only imagined using on the bridge of the starship Enterprise 25 years ago!
Sometimes though, it's good to keep things simpler.
I don't need to be told by my car when my tyres are needing air, I check them every other week. I don't want a touch screen display with a gazillion different light modes or functions, most of which will never be used. A distraction. I want to still enjoy that basic driving experience, looking out if the windscreen at the road ahead, knowing that the technology I do have in my car is working and reliable. I like to still 'feel' the tarmac below the tyres and not be disconnected from it.
Neither my A210 or my Ford convertible have temperature gauges. Do I need them in the dash? Not really because I trust the the manufacturer has produced a product which is so reliable all I need is a warning light.
And lastly, living in the Highlands, the roads are empty, twisty, sublime and raw driving experiences can still be had.