Words fail me...

[Deleted member 37751]

Banned death driver jailed after police car chase - BBC News

Only getting 18 months with his previous is astonishing.

 

[AMGeed]

^+1. He won't think twice about doing it again either. No punishment at all really.

 

[Red C220]

Was the court made aware of his previous conviction/behaviour when he was tried?

 

[John]

Doesn't surprise me at all.

Out of touch judges again no doubt.

"C430"? Quite clearly an S.

 

[219]

Was the court made aware of his previous conviction/behaviour when he was tried?

It should not be mentioned during trial - to avoid prejudice , but should be taken into consideration for sentencing , AFTER the verdict has been delivered .

 

[markjay]

It should not be mentioned during trial - to avoid prejudice , but should be taken into consideration for sentencing , AFTER the verdict has been delivered .

Correct.

 

[Wheelsnuts]

Shockingly lenient punishment.

 

[Larkone]

Should also have been a lifetime ban.

 

[brucemillar]

Lee

As shocking as this is (and it is). Sadly it is not that unusual. It is maybe unusual in that the press have reported it, so we get to here about it. The uninsured, already disqualified driver with multiple previous bans who smashed into my C55, with his wife & kids in his car was a "serial" disqualified driver.

The Police told me that he was part of a culture that simply accepts being caught and going to court as an "occupational hazard" that would be part of his normal routine. It certainly could be seen that it is/was no deterrent. Here is the rationale that Police put forward in court (in my case).

He has zero running costs to contend with.

No Insurance
No Tax
No MOT
No Lessons
No License
No Initial Purchase outlay on the cost of a car (in this case it was £75 Ford Fiesta)
No Petrol costs (He simply drives off without paying)
No Parking tickets or toll fee's

For this he gets to drive his kids to school, his wife to work and himself to his laboring job (yes he was employed, but paid cash in hand).

Then there is stupid one: Me

Done everything by the book and now has a £3000 insurance claim on my Taxed, insured & MOT'd car that is fueled up with £78 of my money. I'm driving within the speed limit on my side of he road with my daughters in the car, when he reverses out his driveway into the rear quarter panel of my car as pass his house.

In court he admitted to multiple disqualifications, unpaid fines no legal docs etc. He did this without pausing for breath or looking slightly uncomfortable.

He was fined £600 with 12 months to pay & disqualified from driving (he already was) for 15 months, on top of his existing 3 year ban. The Magistrate commented "No doubt you leave here and drive home". The Police told me that he moved house after defaulting on his rent and has since been seen (but not caught) driving again.

A recent "mass driving stop & produce excercise" by Kent Police showed that up to 30% are driving uninsured and or without a full set of docs. Why? They can without fear of any loss of liberty.

 

[Yugguy]

This is why they should bring back some form of forced labour. If he was made to work to pay back your costs he might think twice.

 

[Doodle]

Porridge had it right:

Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have pleaded guilty to the charges brought by this court, and it is now my duty to pass sentence. You are an habitual criminal, who accepts arrest as an occupational hazard, and presumably accepts imprisonment in the same casual manner. We therefore feel constrained to commit you to the maximum term allowed for these offences: You will go to prison for five years.

 

[kwk]

I used to be a traffic family liason officer and have been in court with many grieving families who were horrified and distraught by this sort of sentence. The judges need at the very minimum, a size 12 boot inserted in their posterior.

 

[lisa110rry]

There seems to be a crackdown in London on untaxed vehicles. One of our fleet, driven by a young man, got into difficulty because although the dealership sent the change of owner/keeper to the DVLA they, the DVLA, did not change the owner/keeper. The young driver didn't understand that I would have to tax the vehicle (he and I both thought this had been done by the dealership). The reminders were going to the former owner and the ultimate result was a £200 fine and a clamp!

If yer man in the Merc was clamped each time he was found to have no tax, the costs would rapidly rise...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Lee

As shocking as this is (and it is). Sadly it is not that unusual. It is maybe unusual in that the press have reported it, so we get to here about it. The uninsured, already disqualified driver with multiple previous bans who smashed into my C55, with his wife & kids in his car was a "serial" disqualified driver.

The Police told me that he was part of a culture that simply accepts being caught and going to court as an "occupational hazard" that would be part of his normal routine. It certainly could be seen that it is/was no deterrent. Here is the rationale that Police put forward in court (in my case).

He has zero running costs to contend with.

No Insurance
No Tax
No MOT
No Lessons
No License
No Initial Purchase outlay on the cost of a car (in this case it was £75 Ford Fiesta)
No Petrol costs (He simply drives off without paying)
No Parking tickets or toll fee's

For this he gets to drive his kids to school, his wife to work and himself to his laboring job (yes he was employed, but paid cash in hand).

Then there is stupid one: Me

Done everything by the book and now has a £3000 insurance claim on my Taxed, insured & MOT'd car that is fueled up with £78 of my money. I'm driving within the speed limit on my side of he road with my daughters in the car, when he reverses out his driveway into the rear quarter panel of my car as pass his house.

In court he admitted to multiple disqualifications, unpaid fines no legal docs etc. He did this without pausing for breath or looking slightly uncomfortable.

He was fined £600 with 12 months to pay & disqualified from driving (he already was) for 15 months, on top of his existing 3 year ban. The Magistrate commented "No doubt you leave here and drive home". The Police told me that he moved house after defaulting on his rent and has since been seen (but not caught) driving again.

A recent "mass driving stop & produce excercise" by Kent Police showed that up to 30% are driving uninsured and or without a full set of docs. Why? They can without fear of any loss of liberty.

The Motor Insurers’ Bureau
www.mib.org.uk
01908 830001

 

[219]

Lee

As shocking as this is (and it is). Sadly it is not that unusual. It is maybe unusual in that the press have reported it, so we get to here about it. The uninsured, already disqualified driver with multiple previous bans who smashed into my C55, with his wife & kids in his car was a "serial" disqualified driver.

The Police told me that he was part of a culture that simply accepts being caught and going to court as an "occupational hazard" that would be part of his normal routine. It certainly could be seen that it is/was no deterrent. Here is the rationale that Police put forward in court (in my case).

He has zero running costs to contend with.

No Insurance
No Tax
No MOT
No Lessons
No License
No Initial Purchase outlay on the cost of a car (in this case it was £75 Ford Fiesta)
No Petrol costs (He simply drives off without paying)
No Parking tickets or toll fee's

For this he gets to drive his kids to school, his wife to work and himself to his laboring job (yes he was employed, but paid cash in hand).

Then there is stupid one: Me

Done everything by the book and now has a £3000 insurance claim on my Taxed, insured & MOT'd car that is fueled up with £78 of my money. I'm driving within the speed limit on my side of he road with my daughters in the car, when he reverses out his driveway into the rear quarter panel of my car as pass his house.

In court he admitted to multiple disqualifications, unpaid fines no legal docs etc. He did this without pausing for breath or looking slightly uncomfortable.

He was fined £600 with 12 months to pay & disqualified from driving (he already was) for 15 months, on top of his existing 3 year ban. The Magistrate commented "No doubt you leave here and drive home". The Police told me that he moved house after defaulting on his rent and has since been seen (but not caught) driving again.

A recent "mass driving stop & produce excercise" by Kent Police showed that up to 30% are driving uninsured and or without a full set of docs. Why? They can without fear of any loss of liberty.

No doubt the do-gooders would think it barbaric , but for such people I'd amputate the right foot to make it so much harder for them to drive

 

[Abb]

No doubt the do-gooders would think it barbaric , but for such people I'd amputate the right foot to make it so much harder for them to drive

Thats very lenient of you, I would amputate their head, making it much harder for them to exist!

 

[Giantvanman]

I used to be a traffic family liason officer and have been in court with many grieving families who were horrified and distraught by this sort of sentence. The judges need at the very minimum, a size 12 boot inserted in their posterior.

So was I and no they don't, in my experience. I have had many, many superb sentences handed out on my cases and many a judge spent a good time justifying the maximum sentence allowed (by guidelines and to avoid an appeal) and explaining how they would like their hands untied so they could sentence higher.

Where it falls down is political interference and sentencing guidelines (from the sentencing council) which only give a range or band of sentencing according to a given a set of factors. Judges have some leeway but as soon as the 'hanging judge' tries to meter out proper justice, an appeal is lodged, upheld and the sentence is reduced, all because of sentencing guidelines.

As you know, as soon as the defendant pleads guilty before trial, the judge's hands are tied because they have to make allowances when sentencing and make a reduction.....according to sentencing guidelines. In this case, it was a Dangerous Driving charge and not Death by so their hands are tied again.

 

[219]

For the benefit of those who don't know , I was in a bad smash caused by such a person back in 1978 , when a drunk , unlicensed , uninsured driver , in his step fathers allegedly stolen car , overtaking an artic round a blind bend and hitting me head on . I possibly owe my life to the W115 220/8 I was driving and hence have stayed loyal to Mercedes ever since .

Two more recent incidents saw my 300TE-24 written off in my drive by another uninsured driver who demolished my garden wall and sandwiched my car against my house ; then a week later yet another uninsured driver who lost control on the bend outside and wrote off my girlfriend's car .

I make no apology for having a low opinion of those who flout the law .

 

[219]

There seems to be a crackdown in London on untaxed vehicles. One of our fleet, driven by a young man, got into difficulty because although the dealership sent the change of owner/keeper to the DVLA they, the DVLA, did not change the owner/keeper. The young driver didn't understand that I would have to tax the vehicle (he and I both thought this had been done by the dealership). The reminders were going to the former owner and the ultimate result was a £200 fine and a clamp!

If yer man in the Merc was clamped each time he was found to have no tax, the costs would rapidly rise...

Ideally , HE should be clamped , and not the car !

Maybe we should change the street furniture from lamp posts to clamp posts and when these people are caught they are clamped to the nearest one .... and just left .

 

[brucemillar]

The Motor Insurers’ Bureau
www.mib.org.uk
01908 830001

100% not interested. Why? Well the Police had the party responsible, so their attitude was he should be paying up, which is a matter for the courts.

FYI. In my case the guy produced a "valid" insurance certificate at the scene. His wife was very aggressive (shouting and gesticulating) all this in front of loads of kids coming out of school. Hardly an ideal situation.

My Insurance told me over the phone that his insurance was invalid. He maid one payment then defaulted (standard ruse to get a certificate). They also told me he was on file as "known" insurance fraudster.

But the point is that this is not rare. In certain parts of London the Police openly refer to some cultures driving on a "communal" licenses. This where one party takes a test on behalf of most of his extended family. They then proceed to drive on the roads never having taken a test and some with clearly absolutely no idea of the very basic fundamentals of car control. It is seen as the "norm" and that is the problem. These people do not believe that they are the issue here. They see it as a right of passage where we are the idiots (and I think sometimes we are).

There is no realistic deterrent for this kind of thinking and therein lies the issue.