Worth fighting for...

[jdrrco]

Yesterday afternoon, I left work for an appontment and almost immediately I left the car park was pulled over by a gang of 15 (I counted) police and community support officers.

They pulled in every car that wasn't a taxi and were issuing Fixed Penalty Notices for £30 for driving on a road "prohbited to that class of vehicle". I politely explained to the PCSO that I had made a left turn out of the road from the car park (Albion Street, Leeds) and that there was no sign to say that a left turn wasn't allowed. He told me that was tough and I'd have to appeal against the notice.

I wasn't satisfied with this answer and I told him so. He then got one of his colleagues (a PC) to go and look at the road where I had come out and check for a sign. The PC came back and said there was a "busgate" sign (whatever one of those is), so being certain of my facts, I closed the passenger window (nearly trapping the PCSO's fingers, as he refused to remove them!) and told the PC to show me this sign.

He couldn't of course, because there is no sign of any sort on the road in question (there was, until about six months ago, when it was removed by the council). He apologised and said they would void the ticket. On returning to the car, they told me I could go on my way, but didn't give me the ticket nor did they do anything with the carbon copy, so i insisted that they write "void" across both, give me the top copy and add the PC's number (the PCSO's was on the ticket).

However, as I drove off, they were still pulling in every car behind me and, presumably had issued many tickets to people before me too. Now that they are aware that a left turn from Albion Street is not illegal, surely they shouldn't issue any more tickets to cars coming from that direction and, more to the point, should void all the ones they issued before mine, as they would not have asked any of those motorists whether they had made the same, perfectly legal left turn as me.

I am keeping my voided ticket with me in the car and seriously hoping I get stopped again, so that I can complain to the commanding officer about their behaviour.

If ignorance of the law is no defence for the offender, surely it should be no defence for the police too if they issue fines to motorists who have committed no offence.

As you can probably detect, I feel very strongly about this. What action can I take to ensure that the £000's which were fraudulently collected yesterday are returned to their rightful owners?

 

[Gollom]

Makes you wonder if Leeds Council need funds to pay for the office Christmas party?........

Cynical I know - but this kind of thing is becoming all too common and sooner or later the collective temper is going to overspill. I sometimes worry for the future of my grandsons in this country, as much as I love it.

 

[jdrrco]

Makes you wonder if Leeds Council need funds to pay for the office Christmas party?........

The thought never entered my head...!

 

[Rose Chap]

Not sure if the councils get the money from fines like that. Maybe the Police Christmas party...

What's more likely is coming up to the end of the year the Police have failed to meet one of their traffic offences targets, thereby jeopardising their funding for next year.

Consequently rather than going out and catching people driving who are doing really naughty things, they are going out and hoping to blanket catch motorists for petty traffic violations. The fact that they were unaware the road system had recently changed makes the situation even more ridiculous.

I really hope you get this overturned for all concerned jdrrco, good on you.

 

[Gollom]

Not sure how strongly you feel about this, but maybe it needs exposure in the press. Not for sensationalism but because the only (slim) chance of it being investigated is by this kind of publicity.

Of course, you could just write to Leeds Council and ask them to look into it? Yeah, right!

 

[SG CL500]

I would:

Write a letter to the local paper expressing your concern that other motorists were incorrectly caught
Write a letter to the local plod chief regarding the same and possbily include a copy of the press letter to make sure you get his attention.

Although - assuming my understanding of your post is correct, the road is prohibited to vehicles other than buses but the crux of your arguement is that you entered the street via a route that did not make that clear. Could they not have been pulling over other people who had entered the street via a different route where the signage was clear?

 

[Rory]

Write a letter to the local paper expressing your concern that other motorists were incorrectly caught

Yep - I think a call to the Yorkshire Post newsdesk would be worthwhile.

 

[glojo]

If your version is correct, and I certainly have no reason to doubt it, then I would write a letter to the hief Constable outlining the circumstances, along with a copy of the ticket with both officers names. Simply explain the Police Officer corroborated the facts you have outlined, then perhaps ask under the data protection act, how many motorists were issued tickets for using the same route as yourself! Then perhaps suggest these tickets be revoked.

Regarding the newspapers....... The only story here is if the paper would want to do a story on the incorrect issuing of tickets. You MIGHT be the only person that received one for that specific street, or you might be just one of dozens? They would surely have to be 100% accurate, there are no pictures?? So would this be a good story?

Well done for getting justice, hopefully the Police caught lots of uninsured, or disqualified drivers?

Regards,
John

 

[fredfloggle]

Whilst I agree that we all have a duty to comply with the law - and that had that road have been subject to a prohibition , then something should be said - but it does seem to be rather pathetic for them to sit there like that - particularly when there is no sign .
One wonders why many police forces complain about manning levels and funding - unless this was a training exercise for the new woodentops , and a chance to get them outside to let the paint dry on their uniforms .



If you want to push it , make a formal complain - then at the very least , it will get investigated - I would think that "malfeasance" would fit the bill .

 

[jdrrco]

I would:

Write a letter to the local paper expressing your concern that other motorists were incorrectly caught

Although - assuming my understanding of your post is correct, the road is prohibited to vehicles other than buses but the crux of your arguement is that you entered the street via a route that did not make that clear. Could they not have been pulling over other people who had entered the street via a different route where the signage was clear?

I have written a letter to the Yorkshire Post. I don't think it's a "story" but I do feel it may be worthy of the letters page just to alert others who were "caught" yesterday.

Yes, there is another road where it is signposted that you cannot turn (right) onto The Headrow, but the police were stopping everyone and fining everyone, not noting or asking them where they had come from. Those who had been booked ahead of me rightly or wrongly may have a real defence against their ticket but may not know it.

Of course, I would be completely opposed to those who had turned right (against a sign) claiming that they had actually approached from the opposite direction...

As I said, I am sure the police genuinely didn't know that there was no sign from my side, but firstly, they should check their facts before they start booking people and secondly, as I said, ignorance is no excuse.

 

[sye73]

jdrrco - Not that it is of any help, but I'm sorry for the situation you found yourself in. I respect very much the fact that you followed up the incident with a letter to the local press - unfortunately most perople cant be bothered to do that because they feel as if it a fruitless task trying to seek justice against the police. Good luck with it and I hope you get a result.
I also empathise with what Gollom said - I love this country too, but I also understand why so many people are leaving it.

 

[pammy]

My immediate thought was Yorkshire Post too.

Could you be more specific about exactly where and what you did as I do go up that way sometimes and would hate to get caught out

 

[jdrrco]

Could you be more specific about exactly where and what you did as I do go up that way sometimes and would hate to get caught out

No problem, didn't want to bore others with details (or perhaps I should say bore them any more with more details!).

I came out of the Schofields car park, turning left from Albion Street onto The Headrow.

An added irony to all of this, which I didn't mention before, is that that particular stretch of Headrow is only partly restricted. It is about 150 yards long (sad, I know, but I've measured it on a map!) and anyone can drive on the lower 50 yards (coming out of Upper Basinghall street), it is literally just the top 100 yards which is retricted to buses and taxis only.

I didn't mention it before, as I know it is no defence if the rule is just silly, but in this case it happens to be that too!

 

[pammy]

I know it. Fortunatley - I'm highly unlikely to go on that particular stretch as I turn right onto the Headrow to go up past the Light and Merrion etc.

I have no problem with them clamping down in people - but to issue notices etc is too heavy handed. They should be there to warn people first and put clear notices up that people will be charged if they break the rule. Then by all means issue the fines etc as there is no excuse.

 

[R2D2]

Did you hear on the news the other day 10% of Brits now live outside the UK

 

[dagd]

Did you hear on the news the other day 10% of Brits now live outside the UK

Does that mean that 90% live here?

 

[R2D2]

Does that mean that 90% live here?

89% of them are trying to get into my local shopping centre right now!

 

[Carrotchomper]

Guys,

I fully expect to be flamed for this. In the circumstances you describe it seems completely out of order to have been issued a ticket.

However, to a couple of other posters...

-There ARE no "Traffic ticket" stats in the police. It doesn't happen. Detected crimes, maybe, another story...

Police christmas party... No, that doesn't happen either. There are no freebies in the police. If you knew how hard most of my colleagues and I worked and some of the cr*p we put up with day in, day out you would probably not make juvenile comments like this.

Bleat about "Blairs Britain" all you want but statistically you have never been less likely to be stopped by police for minor violations. Before anyone shoots me down, speed cameras do not count.

We all think they're sh*te too!

 

[scumbag]

although I do understand the problem here and I do see the argument. I have to say my sympathy left when you said you wrote to the yorkshire post.

My understanding of the country is still of the opinion that the media does not run the country nor does it run the police. If I was the cheif constable of WYPS and I saw a letter in the press before I had even had a chance to see whether this had been brought up with the local station (Milgarth), or in fact had been brought to my attention to at least give the police a chance to sort out this event, I would not be happy at all.

There is no excuse for not writing a complaint to the people who made this mistake and give them fair chance to investigate into it. If, as you say and knowing the area very likley, hundreds have been incorrectly ticketed, they would be cancelled.

You have not given them chance to correct a mistake.

Sorry to be negative, but dont do that again! If you had made a mistake in your line of work and the first your boss knew about it was in a local paper, what would be your response?

The time to go to the press is when you have evidence they knew about this, that they took action and that they are still doing things wrong! Not before they get a chance to look into it however much agrieved you feel.

Now, to write the wrong, Firstly you write to the Cheif Police of west yorkshire, that new guy Sir Plod. You explain what happened and you also explain what you have done, and cover yourself by saying you did so in a fit of temper. Now that you have regained your senses, you have taken what is the only correct course of action so that he may have a chance to do something about it. Then copy your letter to the leader of Leeds City Council. That will get a reaction!

If you are not satisfied with that, Copy all the letters you have made and recieved and post it to the Home secretary, the Prime minister and both leaders of the Tory's and Lid-Dems, along with and explainations to why you feel unsatisfied with the response and make sure both WYPS and LCC get a copy of what you send.

then stand well back and watch the fire works!

I am having a go at you as I feel that you have reacted quite wrongly in the first instance, but I do think you can make something of this that should, a prevent a re-occurance and b, that you feel better.

Please post up any results you get! Then send it to the press. They will print that lot as they wont have any work to do as you will have done it!

And next time. write the letter as a venting tool. but do not post it. In fact place it in a draw and come back to it the following day, when a new light has shone on it. By all means vent on here so that we may be able to give you a view you may have had clouded by emotion, as in this case.

Sorry to be a bit blunt, but doing things right is often better than doing things wrong!

I hope you take this in the spirit it is meant and that is does not induce any form of negative reaction!

The proof you are right is the void on the ticket. They will not be able to lie there way out of that, not that i am suggesting they would it's just they can't now, so at least you got that right. its the follow on where you lost foresight!

 

[scumbag]

Guys,

I fully expect to be flamed for this.!

You should not be flamed for either telling the truth or educating others on this forum. At least I hope not.