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No does not include those in education, basically quite a high percentage of young people have grown up with no role models of working parents and no consequences if they fail to apply themselves to either looking for a job or actually working at keeping a job should they actually manage to put themselves out and secure one .
Withdraw the benefits and they might be motivated to find and keep a job, keep the benefits at the current level and we will no doubt find 40% of the working age population will prefer to live on benefits instead of work.
By then I’ll be dead and unable to ( unwillingly) pay taxes to keep them in the manner to which we have allowed them to become accustomed
But you quote age from 16 in your original post and as I say can't leave education until 18 these days so not sure your figures can be correct.
Maybe they don't want to work because they begrudge paying taxes for your pension.
 
But you quote age from 16 in your original post and as I say can't leave education until 18 these days so not sure your figures can be correct.
Maybe they don't want to work because they begrudge paying taxes for your pension.
Really irrelevant whether I quoted 16 or 18 years as the start point . The issue is over 20% over young persons , excluding those in education, are not in work or seeking work as they are either drawing sick benefits or other social benefits and don’t feel the need to work , or want to work. God knows who’s going to pay their pensions 😂😂😂
 
Young mechanics very difficult to find these days. My eldest son Bryn did well in his A levels, but decided uni wasn’t for him. He’s doing an apprenticeship with me now with one day a week at college. If you can’t find one, grow one ;)
 
I read recently that a survey of 20 to 30 somethings revealed that the vast majority had not turned up to pre arranged job interviews. Ms Me reports that she frequently arranges half a dozen interviews in one day and perhaps only one interviewee turns up and some days none. I suspect that one of the conditions of getting benefits is the need to prove that you have arranged job interviews or at least applications. What are these young adults actually achieving?
 
I read recently that a survey of 20 to 30 somethings revealed that the vast majority had not turned up to pre arranged job interviews. Ms Me reports that she frequently arranges half a dozen interviews in one day and perhaps only one interviewee turns up and some days none. I suspect that one of the conditions of getting benefits is the need to prove that you have arranged job interviews or at least applications. What are these young adults actually achieving?
2 booked for last week, both no shows.
 
Everybody I have spoken to in recent weeks across a multitude of business, trades and occupations cannot get staff.

And it's not the pay rates or salaries they are offering either.

There is just no pipeline of youth, let alone experience (or talent)

What the hell are the school leavers doing?
They can't all be You Tubers?

Is there a case for immigration
Don't answer that, this isn't a political thread....

Alex, MBS in Southampton have the same problem as you, if that's any comfort (it's not you ;))
Yes indeed, a lot of the other workshops we deal with have the same issues. One that wants to retire but can't due to staff shortages (he is 78!). His choices are close the business or try and sell with no staff, its lunacy.

I suspect covid closure of in personal training for apprecitiships has put a damper on the amount of people available, as they would all be finishing up apprenctiships around this sort of time.
 
Recruiting people is like any market and is based on supply and demand.

People will come to work somewhere if it is appealing - attractive pay, working conditions, development opportunities etc.

If you’re struggling to find suitable candidates you need to review what is being offered. This isn’t aimed at the OP but perhaps more the industry as a whole.

I think I remember a recent thread where people were complaining about the cost of labour at a garage somewhere, but the poster wasn’t willing to get their hands dirty and do the work themselves. Seems a similar theme with a lot of things these days - people expect to earn as much as possible but begrudge paying for others’ time. Working as a mechanic can’t be good for your body long term - I’m sure anyone who has done this for a length of time would agree.

Who wants to lift heavy objects, work in cramped conditions, dusty/dirty/oily/noisy and cold/hot garages for £80 a day (take home on a £25k salary)? Even at £55k (gross) it’s quite hard work for the money, IMHO.

In other words, you get what you pay for. People want cheap bills and expect garages to be open and staffed for their benefit, but if there’s a shortage of people willing to work maybe the pay needs to be higher and this should be reflected in the labour charge.

As for the skills shortages - see above. If you’re a young 16-18 year old and see people kicking a football around or making YouTube videos and earning thousands would you really choose to study taking cars apart and earn barely enough to live on? The fact that so many people are struggling to recruit is surely an indication that the pay and conditions need to improve - in the short term you maybe need to offer incentives for a more experienced/skilled person to move from one garage to another - but this isn’t the long term answer of course :)
 
that the pay and conditions need to improve
Maybe the opposite should happen, benefits should be cut. Can't see it happening, but if you have never worked you are not allowed to claim benefits. How many time do you see teenagers pushing prams, because they get a free house & benefits. No wonder the illegal immigrants are desperate to come to Britain, the streets are definitely paved with gold.
When I was leaving school everyone at my age was desperate to get a job or further education. Can't believe people do not turn up for interviews. Though its true employers sometimes do not have the courtesy to send a letter to unsuccessful applicants.
I once went for an interview, got on great, shown my desk, met Tam the foreman, girls in the office, guy's I would be working with. Letters in the post, still waiting on it 50 years later, wonder if it's just been delayed:(
 
Maybe the opposite should happen, benefits should be cut. Can't see it happening, but if you have never worked you are not allowed to claim benefits. How many time do you see teenagers pushing prams, because they get a free house & benefits. No wonder the illegal immigrants are desperate to come to Britain, the streets are definitely paved with gold.
When I was leaving school everyone at my age was desperate to get a job or further education. Can't believe people do not turn up for interviews. Though its true employers sometimes do not have the courtesy to send a letter to unsuccessful applicants.
I once went for an interview, got on great, shown my desk, met Tam the foreman, girls in the office, guy's I would be working with. Letters in the post, still waiting on it 50 years later, wonder if it's just been delayed:(
How many teenagers pushing prams would be likely to work in a car garage anyway?

Cut benefits and see poverty increase, crime rates increase etc.

Not saying I agree with the work shy, but this has been ongoing for decades and will probably never change.

The pay and conditions needed to attract talent are part of the problem IMHO.

How much does a tube driver or fire fighter earn compared to say a mechanic? And who would you say has better working conditions, sick pay, pension benefits etc.
 



Just for comparison :)
 
Recruiting people is like any market and is based on supply and demand.
:)

I agree completely, but the recruitment process is wage insensitive. We have offered and are offering currently a wage from 25k to 55k based on experience and skill level, over the past 2 years.

Other managment in this industry I have spoken with have not had any luck with throwing higher wages at the problem, instead just succeding in paying more for the same bottom of the barrel workers.

At a wage higher than the above, we may as well close our doors. We simply cannot afford 30-60% of our annual turnover on staff, and the additional costs for NI/Employer contributions that this brings a long with it. We also cannot increase our hourly rate, as its aligned with main dealer (50%).

It is absolutely a double sided situation, and one that we are always exploring ways to resolve. Part time? Sure! Work overnight? No problem. Want to work Monday and Tuesday but only between 1pm and 5pm 2 weeks a month? Come along! Additionally, we have such a massively wider set of jobs, problems and cars compared to main dealer, you can really hone your skills in a workshop like ours. A 1966 220 SEB injection pump one day, and a 2004 W211 the other, with a few ABC Valve block rebuilds and other specialist work in between.

So whilst I agree with "In other words, you get what you pay for", in this case, Its not as simple.
 
I agree completely, but the recruitment process is wage insensitive. We have offered and are offering currently a wage from 25k to 55k based on experience and skill level, over the past 2 years.

Other managment in this industry I have spoken with have not had any luck with throwing higher wages at the problem, instead just succeding in paying more for the same bottom of the barrel workers.

At a wage higher than the above, we may as well close our doors. We simply cannot afford 30-60% of our annual turnover on staff, and the additional costs for NI/Employer contributions that this brings a long with it. We also cannot increase our hourly rate, as its aligned with main dealer (50%).

It is absolutely a double sided situation, and one that we are always exploring ways to resolve. Part time? Sure! Work overnight? No problem. Want to work Monday and Tuesday but only between 1pm and 5pm 2 weeks a month? Come along! Additionally, we have such a massively wider set of jobs, problems and cars compared to main dealer, you can really hone your skills in a workshop like ours. A 1966 220 SEB injection pump one day, and a 2004 W211 the other, with a few ABC Valve block rebuilds and other specialist work in between.

So whilst I agree with "In other words, you get what you pay for", in this case, Its not as simple.
I totally understand your predicament, but ultimately the 50% of main dealer labour rates is based on your being able to offer the service. Without enough staff to manage the work, what do you do?

Would you have to shut your doors if the labour rate was 60-65% of that?

I don’t know, and I’m not a garage so I’m only speculating :)

I just feel that in general in the UK, a large amount of people under value other people’s time and experience. Be that plumbers, builders, mechanics or whatever else.

If the choice is:

1) Do it yourself
2) Main dealer, 100%
3) Specialist, 65%

I think people would accept a small increase - if the work is of top quality.

Just a thought. Yes you can get poor staff who want top money, but someone who is excellent and settled in a job is unlikely to jump ship unless there’s an incentive - usually ££££.

I’m sorry I don’t have the solution, but I wish you the best of luck :thumb:
 
How many teenagers pushing prams would be likely to work in a car garage anyway?

Cut benefits and see poverty increase, crime rates increase etc.
On your first query, I was making a point, not the specific point about working in a garage, sorry you didn't understand it that
Second query, why would poverty & crime increase as they would more than likely find a job. They may be lazy & look for the easiest option. but they are not all criminals and if its poverty or working, I know what I would choose.
When I was young there were hardly any benefits & to get them you had to jump through hoops, most people had jobs however menial. May be wrong but don't think crime was rampant. Everyone I knew worked.

alexanderfoti, you seem to be the type of employer that people would be delighted to work for. You are bending over backwords offering prospective employees basically the hours they want. (Could not see me doing that). I joked about earlier & should not have.. I wish you all the best in finding the right people
 
On your first query, I was making a point, not the specific point about working in a garage, sorry you didn't understand it that
Second query, why would poverty & crime increase as they would more than likely find a job. They may be lazy & look for the easiest option. but they are not all criminals and if its poverty or working, I know what I would choose.
When I was young there were hardly any benefits & to get them you had to jump through hoops, most people had jobs however menial. May be wrong but don't think crime was rampant. Everyone I knew worked.

alexanderfoti, you seem to be the type of employer that people would be delighted to work for. You are bending over backwords offering prospective employees basically the hours they want. (Could not see me doing that). I joked about earlier & should not have.. I wish you all the best in finding the right people
No misunderstanding on my part :)

It’s a thread about recruiting people to work in garages and you suggest teenagers pushing prams as an example of the problem?

I don’t profess to be an expert on crime and socioeconomic status, but I think if you look into it there will be a correlation.

Sadly you can’t force people to do things that they just don’t want to do. It’s the way it is, and always has been.

Another poster saying that 20% of younger people are out of work, what about the 80% of those that are in work!

They must work somewhere ;) and perhaps not looking to work in garages might indicate that there are more attractive careers in terms of pay, conditions, prospects or whatever.

How much does an estate agent earn? And what qualifications do you need?

Think about it - there’s not a shortage of people working, there’s a shortage of people willing to do the job on offer.
 
Different industry, but I've seen a definite increase in crazy expectations of late when recruiting for IT engineers.

People expecting to walk into a £50k+ job straight out of education
CV's that are pure works of fiction - you will get found out at interview, and you'll look like an eejit.
We had a role that required a certain amount of clearance, we make this very clear in the job spec and it gets raised more than once during the interview process. We made an offer to someone, only to have them baulk when it came to submitting for clearance and they admitted they wouldn't get it. Do you think it was optional, that we mentioned half a dozen times just for sh*ts and giggles? :mad:

I don't know who is filling heads with these delusions, but they must be getting them from somewhere.
 
Different industry, but I've seen a definite increase in crazy expectations of late when recruiting for IT engineers.

People expecting to walk into a £50k+ job straight out of education
CV's that are pure works of fiction - you will get found out at interview, and you'll look like an eejit.
We had a role that required a certain amount of clearance, we make this very clear in the job spec and it gets raised more than once during the interview process. We made an offer to someone, only to have them baulk when it came to submitting for clearance and they admitted they wouldn't get it. Do you think it was optional, that we mentioned half a dozen times just for sh*ts and giggles? :mad:

I don't know who is filling heads with these delusions, but they must be getting them from somewhere.
You have hit the nail on the head there. I suspect that it's schools, universities and indulgent parents filling heads. And partly that graduates are required to pay back £20k plus student loans when they reach a certain level, even if they fail a degree. More and more 20 and 30 somethings are apparently still living with parents, presumably many paying no rent and spending everything they earn. The ludicrous price of houses and rent even in the grim north west also has an effect on the wishful thinking of a £50k job. Many factors have come into play which weren't around when I first started out in the world.
 
After reading the list of requirements for the job I was pleased that I satisfy one of them :cool: .
I have a clean licence .
I'm the same , but i do wonder how many modern day Mercedes mechanics could compete with my knowledge of 1950s/1960s , and earlier ! , Mercedes-Benz vehicles ?

I'm not looking for a job , too old now , but have worked on M-Bs ranging back to the late 1920s .
 

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