Wow.... never changed the auto transmission fluid???

[Houstonrice]

Guys,

I bought my W204 C180 K BlueEfficiency, 2009, from the main MB dealership in July 2012 at 40k miles; exactly 3 years after its first registeration in 2009.

its Vin is WDD204045 2A and now done 94k miles. its all annual services have been carried out by the main MB dealership till last year, 2016.

The issue i found out is that this car has never replaced its automatic transmission fluid so far, and the MB dealership (Leicester) confirmed that to me.

Along with that confirmation, they are still figuring out whether this specific engine and mission won't need any replacement of ATM fluid, called 'sealed for lifetime'?, but no response for a week now.

If the car has required replacing its ATM fluid, commonly at 37.5k miles, the main MB Leicester should have done that before selling the car to me in 2012.

I wondered you can advise me what I supposed to do now and then?

 

[markjay]

There was indeed a brief period around that time when MB changed the ATF change internal from 4y/37,500 miles to.... never. 'Sealed for life'.

This was changed back again at a later date, and I believe that it is now 5y/75,000 miles.

You can verify the status for your car by checking on Mercedes-Benz ESS .

But if the dealer is correct and your car is 'caught' in the 'sealed for life' period, then you have no recourse and your only option is to get the ATF and filter changed at a good specialist - check the forum sponsors.

This is because regardless of what MB say - it is recommend to have the ATF and filter changed if you want the autobox to last.

 

[Chrishazle]

When I bought my July 2008 S204 C220 (5 speed autobox) from MB Ashford I noticed the owners manual said change ATf at 37.5k miles, Ashford had supplied the car new and done all the servicing but there was no mention of ATF change having been done. Much argument with them, especially their service manager, who was adamant that the box was "sealed for life" and I would have to pay for it to be done. IIRC he said the 37.5k change applied to the 7 speed box, not the 5 speed - which I contested as it was in the pwners manual in my car.

I now have the car serviced by a very knowledgeable local German car specialist, his advice was to have the change done at 100k miles, which will be this coming January at her annual service.

 

[John]

I see lots of contravening info on this.

My understanding is:
5g (722.6 at least)
7g
Both 60,000kms (/1.6 to get miles) or 4 years

7g+ (cars with Start/Stop)
125,000kms (/1.6 to get miles) or 5 years

 

[Yugguy]

My 58 plate 5G C220 had a fluid change at 39k. I'm going to do it again at around 77k next year. It's on various official service plans as to be done at 37.5k

 

[Marku]

Ours was done on first service from new and has never come up again now reading 63K

 

[Houstonrice]

Guys,

just received an official response from the MB UK Ltd as below, though I don't understand terms like 'ESS sheets', 'WIS/ASRA' etc..

Also, didn't know that they were based in Milton Keynes.

SHOULD I replace ATM fluid at this point and then regularly afterwards??? my local Indi quoted £180 including fluid and a filter.

===========================
The ESS sheets are created based on information from WIS/ASRA and according to the attached service sheet this particular C180 do not require automatic transmission fluid change.


Please contact our technical department at [email protected] if you require further clarification.



Kind Regards

XXXXXXX

Service and Repair Data Analyst

Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

Customer Services Group
MK15

 

[markjay]

I see lots of contravening info on this.

My understanding is:
5g (722.6 at least)
7g
Both 60,000kms (/1.6 to get miles) or 4 years

7g+ (cars with Start/Stop)
125,000kms (/1.6 to get miles) or 5 years

Correct, but also....:

Around 2008/2009 there was a brief period when - for reasons known only to themselves - MB specified the autoboxes as 'sealed for life'.

There does not seem to be any technical reason for the change (and later the change back) in service schedule, so it's not easy to pinpoint the affected boxes - presumably these were the late 5g ones? No one knows for sure....

The most likely explanation is that MB were trying to reduce maintenance costs and attract fleet buyers by copying BMW on this...

Either way, from MB UK's response, it seems that the OP's car is one of those that were specified with a 'sealed for life' autobox, meaning he will just have to pay to get the ATF and filter changes.

Incidentally, the reason for this odd mileage figure - i.e. '37,500 miles' - is not that German engineering is that good that it can predict to the nearest mile when the ATF will need changing... it is simply that German technical writers are a very pedantic lot and just divide the KM figure in 1.6 (as you pointed above) when translating the documentation for the UK market... and lacking the imagination required to round it up or down from 37,500 to 35,000 or to 40,000.... or even to 37,000 or 38,000....

 

[John]

The ESS sheets are created based on information from WIS/ASRA and according to the attached service sheet this particular C180 do not require automatic transmission fluid change.

Please contact our technical department at [email protected] if you require further clarification.

Kind Regards

XXXXXXX

Service and Repair Data Analyst

Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

MB UK are overly-friendly these days aren't they!

SHOULD I replace ATM fluid at this point and then regularly afterwards??? my local Indi quoted £180 including fluid and a filter.

I would. I do!

Correct, but also....:

Around 2008/2009 there was a brief period when - for reaons known only to themselves - MB specified the autoboxes as 'sealed for life'.

There does not seem to be any technical reason for the change (and later the change back) in service schedule, so it's not easy to pinpoint the affected boxes - presumably these were the late 5g ones? No one knows for sure....

The most likely explanation is that MB were trying to reduce maintenance costs and attract fleet buyers by copying BMW on this...

Either way, from MB UK's response, it seems that the OP's car is one of those that were specified with a 'sealed for life' autobox, meaning he will just have to pay to get the ATF and filter changes.

Incidentally, the reason for this odd mileage figure - i.e. '37,500 miles' - is not that German engineering is that good that it can predict to the nearest mile when the ATF will need changing... it is simply that German technical writers are a very pedantic lot and just divide the KM figure in 1.6 (as you pointed above) when translating the documentation for the UK market... and lacking the imagination required to round it up or down from 37,500 to 35,000 or to 40,000.... or even to 37,000 or 38,000....

I ignore that stupid period! I think there may have been another one too earlier on - which included the MB boxes used in Shags.

I used to do every 40,000 on my E55 - which strangely worked out to be 4 odd years anyway.

I plan to do mine next year at 5 as there is no way the car will hit 75,000 for another 5 years.

 

[markjay]

Guys,

just received an official response from the MB UK Ltd as below, though I don't understand terms like 'ESS sheets', 'WIS/ASRA' etc..

Also, didn't know that they were based in Milton Keynes.

SHOULD I replace ATM fluid at this point and then regularly afterwards??? my local Indi quoted £180 including fluid and a filter.

===========================
The ESS sheets are created based on information from WIS/ASRA and according to the attached service sheet this particular C180 do not require automatic transmission fluid change.


Please contact our technical department at [email protected] if you require further clarification.



Kind Regards

XXXXXXX

Service and Repair Data Analyst

Mercedes-Benz Cars UK Limited

Customer Services Group
MK15

WIS - Workshop Information System (MB's online official workshop manual)
ASRA - Arbeitstexte, Standardtexte, Richtzeiten und Arbeitswerte (calculating the amount of time each job should be billed)
ESS - Electronic Service Sheet (online service schedule booklet)
EPC - Electronic Parts Catalogue (online parts Catalogue)

MB UK HQ:

Contact Us - Mercedes-Benz Cars UK

 

[Railwayman]

Never brought in to this "sealed for life" crap, all fluids brake down over time. Have replaced mine twice in 51000 miles, over the top maybe, but for the cost of parts and a hour or so of my time priceless. Bring back grease nipples on joints is what I would like to see lol.

 

[wu56Shoozz]

As an Engineer, Railwayman has this nailed.. All oils break down over time ask the specialists.. Millers/Castrol/ etc etc remember its subject to heat/cold debris etc.. I once took a box apart on a Triumph 2000 (70's) and it never had an oil change.. when I opened the overdrive box it was like someone had filled it with tube cheese and poo'd in it .. the smell was ridiculous like a rotten bog.. on the up side I had a 7 series and I went to pick up my boss in it. A few days before I'd put it in to Mackies in Glasgow for an autobox service..the difference was night & day and there was no longer heat transfer to the shifter stem.. so back to my boss and I had to take him to his flight, we were late and I was giving it some beans.. he leant over and said "Are we out of first yet?" I replied "Sure hope so as we're doing 80+ " the change was so smooth up the gears. point being..it pays to service the box no matter what they say..

 

[Emmell]

Well you've convinced me. Next service on mine (only done 45k miles) will include the gearbox. Cheers.

 

[Chrishazle]

Never brought in to this "sealed for life" crap, all fluids brake down over time. Have replaced mine twice in 51000 miles, over the top maybe, but for the cost of parts and a hour or so of my time priceless. Bring back grease nipples on joints is what I would like to see lol.

Best explanation I've heard is from the German car specialist i took my S204 to for service last January. Apparently historically MB had transmission failures around the 120-150K miles mark, by which time most if not all were being serviced away from main dealers. These failures made MB unhappy, so they introduced the 37.5k ATF change so it would be done while the car was still in the main dealer servicing. For my S204, he said it would be advisable to have it's first ATF change at 100k miles (not before!) so it could wait until her next service in Jan 2018.

 

[Tuercas viejas]

Well if its any matter to think about or contemplate I had a 2008 sprinter in the shop with a blown engine at 312,000 miles a few weeks ago!.
The transmission had never been serviced. A bit varnished up and tongue in cheek at the owners behest we fully serviced it.
The lock up clutch was a bit hesitant on test so it got a dose of BG ATF+ (plus) at the final test run to prove the install of the ex MB works engie and it was shifting fine.
The thing left for Hollywood Florida, post hurricane a week ago--owner chuffed!
Tuercas viejas

 

[Houstonrice]

Ok guys, many thanks for sharing your experiences and opinions.

In this end, I have decided to go DIY for ATM fluid & filter replacement, and will take a few shots to be uploaded for all of you. I will be thrilled to show you out the naked ATM, which designed 'seal for life', that has done over 94k miles over the last 8 yrs..

For that, I will need your support for my C180 K BlueEff W204 (5 Speed Automatic Gear Box 722.6) with below;

- how to drain and refil ATM fluid in to the torque convertor? i have Sealey VS820 available if helpful?
- how much fluid do i need for a complete replacement, including the torque convertor?
- what cleaner works best when cleaning inside ATM and the drain pan? i have WD40 and autoglym degreaser available.
- how to measure the ATM fluid level correctly and precisely once replaced..? only rely on dip stick measuring?

It will be big fun if I can carrry out this work examining my ATM status with you guys support...!

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Best explanation I've heard is from the German car specialist i took my S204 to for service last January. Apparently historically MB had transmission failures around the 120-150K miles mark, by which time most if not all were being serviced away from main dealers. These failures made MB unhappy, so they introduced the 37.5k ATF change so it would be done while the car was still in the main dealer servicing. For my S204, he said it would be advisable to have it's first ATF change at 100k miles (not before!) so it could wait until her next service in Jan 2018.

I can't help but wonder if MB, in fact, think 'hmm gearbox servicing being done out of the dealer network, we'll have a bit of that' and then introduced gearbox servicing requirements.

 

[gramey]

I appear to have missed something, why all this sudden concern after owning it for five years when it appears not to have bothered you before. Even if the dealer hadn't done it at 37.5k, if it was meant to be done, I doubt you'd have got anywhere with it over 5 years later. Still good luck with your oil & filter change as personally I don't mind a bit of spannering but I leave the smelly and messy to those better equipped.

 

[Houstonrice]

I have not been bothered to look after technical sides of my car or DIYing whilst all required annual services were done at MB dealership till last year.

This year, local MB's quoted me too much for the B3 service whilst I want to keep & drive the car as long as possible, so just decided to carry out DIY for maintenance as much as I can from now on; one, so I can save budgets, two, I can ensure that the maintenance service is properly done, and three, I am a professional engineer (with a PhD awarded in ICE, so I know everything about theory, of course, but nothing I touch would work...^^)

Nevertheless, during recent learning for B3 services, which is now completed, I learnt an issue; replacing ATM fluid. Since learning and DIYing have become a hobby type that I can enjoy, I thought ATM fluid replacement would be an another element of weekend joy and a bit of benefit to the forum to help settling the controversial issue.

If I can with you guys' support, why not try out. Never know what i will figure out and how much i will benefit out of them..!

 

[Chrishazle]

Don't know where you're located, but I had the B3 service in accordance with the MB ESS on my C220 S204 last January at a local indie for under £300 (local MB dealer wanted over £500). This did not include the ATF change, he'll be doing that this January!