Wrongful arrest?

[EClassy]

I have been accused of burglary by a tenant at a house I own.

I got a call from the police and arranged to meet at 1000 on a Tuesday. I consulted a private solicitor and after paying a consultation fee, he agreed to accompany me this appointment. On the day of the appointment, I got a call at 0920 telling me the police couldn't see me on the day. I was really upset as I had taken the day off work and I was already in the town in a cafe waiting for the solicitor to meet up with me.

I got a call at about 1730 on a Monday about 2 weeks later asking to make another appointment for the next day at 0900. I told the constable that was impossible as I had work commitments. On the Friday of that week I dropped in without an appointment and off course without a solicitor as I wasn't willing to pay anyone again. (My duty solicitor would later tell me there are solicitors who would attend a station with me and get paid by legal aid).

The detective constable called me into an interview room, put on the tape and told me he was just going to ask a few questions. I told him that was fine but I would like a solicitor present. He told me to call in my solicitor and I told him I didn't come with one as I couldn't afford to pay him again since they cancelled the last appointment at such short notice. The constable was obviously upset by this and proceeded to arrest me and 'shout' my caution at me.

In my custody record, place of arrest is written down as 'reception area' but this is false. I was arrested in an interview room which had the recorder on and recording.

The constable had no reasonable suspicion to arrest me when he first saw me. He also had no reasonable suspicion when he asked for my side of the story. Is the request for a solicitor a good enough reason to arrest a volunteer?

I could have explained myself without a solicitor but I had a terrible experience with the police and I have zero trust in them. A decade ago I attended a police station as a volunteer and was arrested by mistaken identity and my money was even stolen. Incidentally I only just got a letter from the police today informing me that my DNA, fingerprints, custody suite images and PNC records from that arrest have been deleted.

Another interesting information from my custody record was that an Inspector authorised a request to search my address whilst I was in custody but this search was never carried out as the person at home confirmed. I strongly believe this request was made with the knowlegde that a search will not be carried out but an attempt to keep me for as long as possible and 'teach me a lesson'. I didn't see a solicitor until 6 hours after I was arrested.

The chap who made the report is well known to the police as he frequently threatens and assaults other residents at the the property and agents of the car park management company.

Regards

 

[Dieselman]

Speak to a Solicitor.

What exactly did they arrest you for? It seems unreasonable as you had entered the station voluntarily and some considerable time after the event took place.

 

[EClassy]

Arrested for ''Burglary dwelling'' based on nothing but what my tenant said.

I definitely will. I am 99% sure this will be a NFA as it is complete BS. The very professional DC who interviewed me hinted this without directly saying it but I am just waiting for confirmation of NFA before I start the process. I have to answer bail in a month.

 

[Giantvanman]

I had a quick scout; hope this helps.
Have a look at Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 Code G (revised)

"to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence"

"where it is necessary to obtain evidence by questioning"

I believe that, because of new legal precedent, whereby someone who would normally have just been arrested, is now given the opportunity to make a voluntary interview. If that is not done, the officer then arrests for the purpose of the quoted above.

The custody record, a copy of which you are entitled to, will show when the solicitor was called.

 

[EClassy]

I had a quick scout; hope this helps.
Have a look at Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 Code G (revised)

"to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence"

"where it is necessary to obtain evidence by questioning"

I believe that, because of new legal precedent, whereby someone who would normally have just been arrested, is now given the opportunity to make a voluntary interview. If that is not done, the officer then arrests for the purpose of the quoted above.

The custody record, a copy of which you are entitled to, will show when the solicitor was called.

Interesting. The duty solicitor informed me that my request for a solicitor could have been granted without me being arrested. Maybe he was talking rubbish. I was willing to give an interview, that is what I went to the police station for. I simply asked for a solicitor to be present.

I thought there had to be reasonable suspicion for a constable to arrest. If there was no reasonable suspicion when he first met with me, no reasonable suspicion when he told me what he wanted to do i.e ask a few questions and record my answers. Is asking for a solicitor enough to give a constable a reasonable suspicion? Did he take a view of he is innocent what does he need a solicitor for?

Arrested just before 1030. Solicitor called at 1500

 

[MCFastybloke]

In order for you to make a statement you must have received your caution,be arrested so to speak.An alledged offence has be commited in which you are part.Get a solicitor,duty or otherwise and at least you get disclosure this way round.

 

[martyz]

Arrested for ''Burglary dwelling'' based on nothing but what my tenant said.

I definitely will. I am 99% sure this will be a NFA as it is complete BS. The very professional DC who interviewed me hinted this without directly saying it but I am just waiting for confirmation of NFA before I start the process. I have to answer bail in a month.

Surely suspicion of burglary,otherwise you would have been charged.

 

[Giantvanman]

You need to separate reasonable suspicion from grounds for arrest.

He has reasonable suspicion ; someone made an allegation. What then follows is the result of revised Code G.

I would certainly check when you asked for a solicitor, check the attempts made, and look for the reasons why contact was not made, all of which will be on the custody record.

As for the rest, there is insufficient information to make an informed judgement in that, for example, there would normally be a very good reason why a PACE S18 search was not carried out having been authorised. Unforeseen eventualities or shortage of officers is the most likely reason.

You also have to differentiate between your solicitor and the ones on call. Does your solicitor have an on call system? Having attended for a pre-arranged appointment without a solicitor, the quickest way to get one to attend would be an on call one rather than your own, normally.

Why did the tenant make the allegation in the first place? What did he/she say you did?

 

[EClassy]

I had never heard of PACE G but thank goodness for forums.

'' When making arrangements for the person’s voluntary attendance, the officer should tell the person:


• that to properly investigate their suspected involvement in the
offence they must be interviewed under caution at the police
station, but in the circumstances their arrest for this purpose will
not be necessary if they attend the police station voluntarily to be
interviewed - I was told this


• that if they attend voluntarily, they will be entitled to free legal
advice before, and to have a solicitor present at, the interview - I wasn't told this but it exactly what I requested which then led to my arrest


• that the date and time of the interview will take account of their
circumstances and the needs of the investigation; and - First interview cancelled with 40 mins notice after taking day off work and paying a solicitor


• that if they do not agree to attend voluntarily at a time which
meets the needs of the investigation, or having so agreed, fail to
attend, or having attended, fail to remain for the interview to be
completed, their arrest will be necessary to enable them to be
interviewed. - None of this occurred


2G When the person attends the police station voluntarily for interview by
arrangement as in Note 2F above, their arrest on arrival at the station
prior to interview would only be justified if:


• new information coming to light after the arrangements were made
indicates that from that time, voluntary attendance ceased to be a
practicable alternative and the person’s arrest became necessary; and -
not applicable as I wasn't arrested on arrival or in reception. I was arrested in interview room approximately 5 minutes after first making contact with constable. Recorder was on and he had told me he wanted to interview me to get my side of the story


• it was not reasonably practicable for the person to be arrested before
they attended the station. - not applicable as I wasn't arrested on arrival or in reception. I was arrested in interview room approximately 5 minutes after first making contact with constable. Recorder was on and he had told me he wanted to interview me to get my side of the story


2H The necessity criteria do not permit arrest solely to enable the routine taking, checking (speculative searching) and retention of fingerprints,
samples, footwear impressions and photographs when there are no prior
grounds to believe that checking and comparing the fingerprints etc. or
taking a photograph would provide relevant evidence of the person’s
involvement in the offence concerned or would help to ascertain or verify
their real identity.

 

[EClassy]

Surely suspicion of burglary,otherwise you would have been charged.

Well it says

Offence: Burglary dwelling

Reasons to arrest: To allow prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the DP

Place: Reception area (I was actually arrested in the interview room)

Circumstances: PD is suspect for burglary which occurred at xxxxxxxxxx on xxxx

 

[Giantvanman]

Why did the tenant make the allegation in the first place? What did he/she say you did?


I see you found Code G; it is very difficult to offer any advice unless the whole story is known but it seems clear that this is something that is unlikely to be resolved on a forum. See a solicitor AND BE HONEST AND FORTHCOMING with him/her.

What I would advise is this with no offence intended or finger pointing; when reading something so important, it is important to read whilst in the correct (honest, impartial, emotionless) frame of mind and it must be considered as a whole. No 'cherry picking' the parts that seem to suit a position. To be clear, no offence or finger pointing from me.

 

[EClassy]

I would certainly check when you asked for a solicitor, check the attempts made, and look for the reasons why contact was not made, all of which will be on the custody record.

No attempt was made. I was sitting right there in front of him in the interview room with the machine running. he asked for my side of the story and I requested for a solicitor. To which he replied you can call him in (probably assuming I had returned with a solicitor as I had informed I would for the 1st appointment which was cancelled). Telling him I didnt come with one as a result of lost money which resulted form their earlier cancellation resulted in me being arrested.

As for the rest, there is insufficient information to make an informed judgement in that, for example, there would normally be a very good reason why a PACE S18 search was not carried out having been authorised. Unforeseen eventualities or shortage of officers is the most likely reason.

Seriously? They had a burglar in custody, had the authorisation to search but yet pass on the chance to carry out the search which meant I could then go home and dispose of the ''evidence''. Anyway no self respecting burglar will keep the proceeds of his crime in his own house a complete month after the burglary occurred

You also have to differentiate between your solicitor and the ones on call. Does your solicitor have an on call system? Having attended for a pre-arranged appointment without a solicitor, the quickest way to get one to attend would be an on call one rather than your own, normally.

I eventually got a duty solicitor (on call). I was surely not going to spend another penny necessarily. Tenant is several months in arrears and Section 8 proceedings cost money too.

Why did the tenant make the allegation in the first place? What did he/she say you did?

I would rather not say as it will distract from what I am trying to establish which is was I wrongfully/unlawfully arrested.

 

[Giantvanman]

Some overlap inn posting times……..sorry. Give me a minute

 

[martyz]

Well it says

Offence: Burglary dwelling

Reasons to arrest: To allow prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the DP

Place: Reception area (I was actually arrested in the interview room)

Circumstances: PD is suspect for burglary which occurred at xxxxxxxxxx on xxxx

You attended at your own free will
You assisted them with their investigations
You were not charged
As far as I can see,no reason to arrest you,but bailed to return for outcome of
their investigation.

 

[Giantvanman]

Sorry, EClassy, but I am going to apologise and bow out of this now. I have read your post 12 and feel that I cannot assist any further in this media form. I sincerely hope that it all works out well for you.

 

[markjay]

If I understand correctly then you voluntarily walked into a police station without a solicitor in order to be interviewed, then told them that you don't want to be interviewed without a solicitor?

 

[Mr. B]

I have been accused of burglary by a tenant at a house I own.

Fair enough it therefore needs investing by the Police.

I got a call from the police and arranged to meet at 1000 on a Tuesday. I consulted a private solicitor and after paying a consultation fee, he agreed to accompany me this appointment. On the day of the appointment, I got a call at 0920 telling me the police couldn't see me on the day. I was really upset as I had taken the day off work and I was already in the town in a cafe waiting for the solicitor to meet up with me.

Unfortunate but these things do happen if the Police having more urgent priorities that day.

I got a call at about 1730 on a Monday about 2 weeks later asking to make another appointment for the next day at 0900. I told the constable that was impossible as I had work commitments. On the Friday of that week I dropped in without an appointment and off course without a solicitor as I wasn't willing to pay anyone again. (My duty solicitor would later tell me there are solicitors who would attend a station with me and get paid by legal aid).

You should have made another appointment when more suitable for both you and the Police. Legal aid depends on your circumstances.


The detective constable called me into an interview room, put on the tape and told me he was just going to ask a few questions. I told him that was fine but I would like a solicitor present. He told me to call in my solicitor and I told him I didn't come with one as I couldn't afford to pay him again since they cancelled the last appointment at such short notice. The constable was obviously upset by this and proceeded to arrest me and 'shout' my caution at me.

So far so good except I find it hard to believe that a Detective constable would be upset by the fact you didn't come with a solicitor, especially as a duty solicitor could be provided for you. No benefit in shouting a caution especially as the whole conversation is being recorded anyway.

In my custody record, place of arrest is written down as 'reception area' but this is false. I was arrested in an interview room which had the recorder on and recording.

I suspect the interview room is part of the reception area (this is where they are normally located).

The constable had no reasonable suspicion to arrest me when he first saw me. He also had no reasonable suspicion when he asked for my side of the story. Is the request for a solicitor a good enough reason to arrest a volunteer?

You were arrested because he had reasonable grounds to suspect that you were involved in a burglary NOT because you requested a solicitor.

I could have explained myself without a solicitor but I had a terrible experience with the police and I have zero trust in them. A decade ago I attended a police station as a volunteer and was arrested by mistaken identity and my money was even stolen. Incidentally I only just got a letter from the police today informing me that my DNA, fingerprints, custody suite images and PNC records from that arrest have been deleted.

The first part isn't applicable to this incident. The second part is normal procedure. It would appear there is NFA (no further action) to be taken against you in relation the burglary.

Another interesting information from my custody record was that an Inspector authorised a request to search my address whilst I was in custody but this search was never carried out as the person at home confirmed. I strongly believe this request was made with the knowlegde that a search will not be carried out but an attempt to keep me for as long as possible and 'teach me a lesson'. I didn't see a solicitor until 6 hours after I was arrested.

Searching premises if someone is arrested on suspicion of burglary is normal practice. A request can be authorised by an Inspector but may not necessarily be carried out if further information comes to light. 6hrs to see a solicitor - why didn't you ask the solicitor why it took him 6 hrs to attend ?

The chap who made the report is well known to the police as he frequently threatens and assaults other residents at the the property and agents of the car park management company

Why don't you take steps to get a new tenant.

I appreciate your frustration at the process you have been subjected to but the Police have a duty to investigate burglaries and unfortunately you were their number one suspect.

As you have said your problem would appear to be your tenant. You should focus your time and effort on ways to remove your tenant instead of blaming the Police for doing their job.

On a final note nobody who comments on this forum was with you when you had your experience with the Police. I and others can only comment on how we interpret your post and perhaps our experience of the procedures that took place.

I hope this helps if not have a beer and chill.

 

[Stratman]

Write a letter of complaint stating your grievances to the Chief Constable. If you're not satisfied with the response, make a complaint to the IPCC.

 

[EClassy]

Thanks Mr B

There is a necessity test for arrest. I attended as a volunteer. If he had reasonable suspicion, He should/would have arrested me on first contact. Instead he invited me in, offered me a seat, put on his machine and asked for my side of the story. I remember him even telling me '' I found the story a bit suspect which is why I want to have a chat with you'. I then asked for a solicitor and got arrested. Approxiamtely 5 minutes after 1st contact.

Thanks for all your comments. We are not experts so I appreciate your inputs. If anything I found out about Pace G so my thread has served a useful purpose.

I will definitely be speaking to my solicitor and writing to the Commisoner when I know the official outcome of this investigation.

Thank you

 

[Mr. B]

I will make one further comment on the subject as I don't want to encourage the usual 12 page thread when the two already posted should suffice for you.

There is a necessity test for arrest. I attended as a volunteer. If he had reasonable suspicion, He should/would have arrested me on first contact.

I trust your research has directed you to Code G of the Codes of Practice, which governs Police powers of arrest.

A lawful arrest requires two elements:

A person’s involvement or suspected involvement or attempted involvement in the commission of a criminal offence AND reasonable grounds for believing that the person’s arrest is necessary'.

What that means is that an arrest isn't always necessary.

There are nine reasons which are considered 'necessary criteria' before an arrest takes place.

I don't intend to list them as they are easy to find on the internet.

Before you waste any more money on a solicitor do a bit more research on the internet and be open and honest with yourself about the actions of the Police.

If you feel aggrieved about their actions then write to the Chief Constable asking for an explanation. If you write to the IPCC they will only pass the matter back to the original Police Force because the matter / incident is not of a serious nature.

If you want my honest opinion I would put it down to one of life's experiences and move on. Like i've said you need to direct your efforts in removing your tenant rather than causing unnecessary paper work / enquires for an already overstretched profession.

Good luck what ever you decide.

Now it's time for a beer.