Wrongful arrest?

[Dieselman]

Legal aid is not meant for landlords with multiple properties who've been accused of a criminal offence against their tenant, its for those who can't get justice because they can't afford representation.
By the tone of your latest post its way past your bedtime.

This is plainly a business expense, he's renting the house out therefore he must be doing so for gain, as I said earlier it's doesn't have to be deductible, he can take the cost as a benefit and declare it on his P11d.

Did you read post #33?

 

[mat8n]

I would rather not say as it will distract from what I am trying to establish which is was I wrongfully/unlawfully arrested.

so you're saying you're not against the reason why you were arrested, just the WAY you were arrested?

to me that looks like you're looking for a loophole

 

[Dryce]

so you're saying you're not against the reason why you were arrested, just the WAY you were arrested?

to me that looks like you're looking for a loophole

I think you'll probably find the OP is against the underlying reason he was arrested and the manner in which it was done.

The icing on the cake is his understanding of the technicalities surrounding the procedures followed on the occasion he was arrested and the subsequent lack of search followup. And that gives him something he feels he can specifically argue with.

 

[Colin_b]

Interesting. The duty solicitor informed me that my request for a solicitor could have been granted without me being arrested. Maybe he was talking rubbish. I was willing to give an interview, that is what I went to the police station for. I simply asked for a solicitor to be present.

I thought there had to be reasonable suspicion for a constable to arrest. If there was no reasonable suspicion when he first met with me, no reasonable suspicion when he told me what he wanted to do i.e ask a few questions and record my answers. Is asking for a solicitor enough to give a constable a reasonable suspicion? Did he take a view of he is innocent what does he need a solicitor for?

Arrested just before 1030. Solicitor called at 1500

I assume that this was 'an interview under caution'. If so you are entitled to a solicitor (or more realistically, a clerk) to be present at the interview. This is covered by the caution.

Asking for a solicitor is not grounds for arrest.

If you are arrested, you cannot be detained without the approval of the custody sgt. There will be a detailed record of your being detained.

The custody sgt. will ask you and record your answer to a number of questions.

He will likewise question the arresting officer to verify the arrest is a) justified and b) detention is appropriate. He will not allow the detention unless there is proper grounds.

The process is covered in detail by PACE.

 

[developer]

I am what you may call an accidental landlord. I don't even know my tenants real name cause the name I have on his agreement is completely different to what he gave to the police.

Separate from the "burglary" issue, I feel for you and your tenant woes.

Being an accidental landlord with a bad tenant is not a good place to be, however it came about .

 

[Jukie]

Interesting. The duty solicitor informed me that my request for a solicitor could have been granted without me being arrested. Maybe he was talking rubbish. I was willing to give an interview, that is what I went to the police station for. I simply asked for a solicitor to be present.

I thought there had to be reasonable suspicion for a constable to arrest. If there was no reasonable suspicion when he first met with me, no reasonable suspicion when he told me what he wanted to do i.e ask a few questions and record my answers. Is asking for a solicitor enough to give a constable a reasonable suspicion? Did he take a view of he is innocent what does he need a solicitor for?

Arrested just before 1030. Solicitor called at 1500

I repeat, you request must be granted under PACE unless very specific and special circumstances apply. In your case, such circumstances did not apply, not even close!!

Reasonable suspicion comes from evidence or allegation already available, i.e. it appears you'd been names as a suspect in a criminal matter. That's reason enough unless your innocence can be proved prior to arrest.

What happened when you were arrested comes under the banner of necessity to arrest. Asking for a solicitor does not provide a necessity for arrest. I am presuming you made no attempt to leave the station at the time?

Asking for a solicitor does not imply guilt. Nor should any officer take it as such.

 

[stevieb15]

Did you read post #33?

I did, and..?

 

[Dieselman]

I did, and..?

You stated that Legal Aid isn't for landlords with multiple properties and that he must be renting for profit.

Neither appear to be correct, He is renting a sole property and making a loss overall.

 

[EClassy]

I repeat, you request must be granted under PACE unless very specific and special circumstances apply. In your case, such circumstances did not apply, not even close!!

My request wasnt granted. I wasnt aware of my right to a solicitor at the time but I asked for one cause I dont trust the police. I dont think any special circumstances applied in my case. I will find out soon anyway.

Reasonable suspicion comes from evidence or allegation already available, i.e. it appears you'd been names as a suspect in a criminal matter. That's reason enough unless your innocence can be proved prior to arrest.

Thanks for clearing this up. The only reason I asked was I was in a similar situation a decade ago and on arrival at the station I was immediately arrested. I just wondered why he wanted to speak to me first and why asking for a solicitor led to my arrest. I thought maybe asking for a solicitor was what gave him the reasonable suspicion to then arrest me.

For those thinking its happened to him twice, he must be a criminal. No I am not. I was released on the day with NFA. My house had been raided as someone reported a company with a similar name to one registered to my address by my landlord for fraud. The police madw a big **** up and raided my house eben though itvwas just a registered address. The egg ob the face moment was when they realised the company they should have been investigating was in Milton Keynes about 200 miles away:fail. At he time I thought the police looked out for innocent people so I went to the station thinking I could just explain myself and get my property and money back. I complained about my treatment and got a personal meeting with 2 high ranking police officers, a letter of apology was sent to me and my door repaired by the police. I have only just received confirmation that all records from that arrest will be deleted.

What happened when you were arrested comes under the banner of necessity to arrest. Asking for a solicitor does not provide a necessity for arrest. I am presuming you made no attempt to leave the station at the time?

Asking for a solicitor does not imply guilt. Nor should any officer take it as such.

I didnt make to leave. Why/how would I. After reading up on this I am wondering why the chap deviated from PACE so much i.e not reading me my caution, denying my request for a solicitor and arresting me when I had attended voluntarily. Could he be a rookie? He didnt look like one to me cause with the way he shouted my caution at me after telling me I was under arrest, I'd imagine he has dealt with a few scotes in his time.

There was another man present in the room when he began to interview me and the chap was also present throughout my booking in. He never said a word but just observed. Maybe that chap was assessing him or more like a rookie DC learning the ropes.

 

[stevieb15]

You stated that Legal Aid isn't for landlords with multiple properties and that he must be renting for profit.

Neither appear to be correct, He is renting a sole property and making a loss overall.

He has multiple properties, one he rents out for gain.
The fact he makes no profit is irrelevant.
I'm currently setting up a new business, costs greater than income since November, last months legal bill £379...legal aid?
Perhaps it's just me.

 

[Meldrew2]

He has multiple properties, one he rents out for gain.
The fact he makes no profit is irrelevant.
I'm currently setting up a new business, costs greater than income since November, last months legal bill £379...legal aid?
Perhaps it's just me.

He has two properties - one of which he lives in and one which he has to rent due to the crash in house prices. He is not renting for gain - only to minimise loss.

As you have multiple cars - would you agree to be denied legal aid for a motoring offence?

 

[timskemp]

He will have been accused and cautioned as an individual, not as a business. The tenant-landlord relationship has nothing to do with it. A member of the public is accusing another member of the public of a crime, the police are not investigating a business here but an individual, so there's no doubt in my mind that he should take any legal aid he is entitled to.

We are talking about the rights of an individual, not a business being claimed against for breach of contract.

 

[Jukie]

@ EClassy. On that basis that you have told us the full story, if you feel so inclined, you may wish to lodge an official complaint with your Chief Constable, Police Commissioner or the IPCC. From what you've said the officer(s) did not follow procedures correctly.

 

[markjay]

If the individual is a sole trader or partner then that implies that it is not a business expense. So it's not part of the business. It's part of their income from the business. So it's a personal expense.

Be it as it may.... my issue is that I would have thought that cost of dealing with criminal charges can not be considered business expense.

Criminal charges are against the individual, not the business. In a similar way, a speeding ticket is issued to the driver of the vehicle at the time of the offence, not to the owner (although it may be posted to the Registered Keeper if the driver was not stopped at the scene), and can't be claimed as a business expense even if the drive was speeding in order to get to a client.

Just my instinctive view - I have no specific knowledge regarding the matter.

 

[PXW]

Generally the cost of criminal defence for a director or partner in a business is not tax deductible. The courts take the view that it is essentially a personal expense and any business benefit is incidental. Where the expense is paid by a company for a director it will typically be treated as a taxable benefit.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Write a letter of complaint stating your grievances to the Chief Constable. If you're not satisfied with the response, make a complaint to the IPCC.

^^^This.

Initially, I'd avoid contacting the IPCC. Or better again get a solicitor to write to the CC. I'd also consider using a top notch firm too and not from the area. Judging by your comments funds seem limited still, I reckon it could be wise investment to spend the few bob.