Yet another perfomance question 300CE24v sorry

[captainb]

Hi
I have a 1990 300CE 24v M104-CIS engine.
I want to increase the 0-60 performance.
I like the style of my car and want to keep it. I always wanted the pillarless coupe of this style.
I want it to look from the outside just like any other W124. I'm not after the boy racer look.
I therefore I figure I have 3 choices.
Install 2 turbo units as per the mosselman upgrade model. However I believe I can fit it well under the £4K(parts only) I have been quoted so far. I can source both turbo's for around £750 (2x Garett T25BB). I would get the manifold custom made and fit an appropriate intercooler (maybe have to be custom made).
Has anybody done this or fitted the mosselman on this engine model. I'd really like to see pictures.? Any help much appreciated.
I'm a bit concerned about the heat from all this gubbins though. I may need to put in a bigger radiator.

Prior to this I plan to rebuild the current engine (118K on it). I've not seen any performance parts for this engine so I guess It will remain stock.
Although I did see that someone was going to fit C36 component into his m103.

My second option is to find and install a C36 engine. Not sure if that is really viable as It could involve,wiringloom, ECU, gearbox, diff changes.
and end up being a lot more expensive and a bit of a nightmare for me.
Not really very sure or confident about this one and I'd rather keep the original engine.

Third option is the infamous 500 V8 squeeze but I think it will work out more expensive and an even harder and expensive mod than the C36

I might be mad as a hatter doing this on a 16 year old car. I just prefer these models. Thats why I bought one.
Any help, thoughts or ideas much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Glenn Smith]

Don't forget you'll have to lower the compression ratio in order to use the turbos with any real boost, if it's an auto the box won't work properly, pistons will need extra cooling to prevent meltdown etc. etc.

 

[ADY1983]

You Should be able to pick up a full Twin Turbo kit for around £1500, but it is the labour that pushes the price up so I am told, but if it was me I would have a go at fitting myself.. Also as Glenn Smith said, really need to do internal engine mods to get the full benifits and have the ECU changed..

The C36 conversion not A bad Idea if you can get a good engine with all the wiring and ECUs, you should be able to use your 4 speed box on this Engine and do away with the 5 speed box and ECU, The loom I am not to sure about you will need to see the looms from both cars and compare them, If you can get a rear ended C36 your laughing..

Please take a look at my latest project..
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=29814

Also check out the 190 V8 project in the Engine section..

The V8 Idea, (wouldn't we all ) this is what I will be attempting to do a bit later on. Lots of work and time, and you need to source steering parts ect. from different models but It can be done.. watch this space..

Good luck with what you decide, and you will get loads of help and advice here..

Oh and welcome to the forum by the way..:bannana:

 

[Gollom]

Welcome!

Where are you? We all know a certain Ian B Walker on this forum who may be a Mad-As-A-Hatter but is a total whizz on W124 - most people will vouch for him. He is near Preston and runs the 124Works (spot the clue in the company name!)

I'm afraid you may have given him big ideas.....

Steve

 

[nick mercedes]

Hi
I have a 1990 300CE 24v M104-CIS engine.
I want to increase the 0-60 performance.

Why not just get a 500E?

 

[Ian B Walker]

Putting a V8 in a 124 is dooable. However if your car is r/h/d then you will have steering box problems. To overcome these you will need to retro fit a steering rack from say a 210. (They mount under the engine crossmember). The next issue you will have is the exhausts. Use exhaust manifolds from a 107, they branch out in between pots 2 and 3. You will need to uptate the springs and brakes too. HTH

 

[ADY1983]

Why not just get a 500E?

Its not a coupe I guess , and the best part of 10K I think??

 

[grober]

Have you considered supercharging or "kompressing" as MB like to call it. Has the big advantage of low down grunt and much less engine compartment heat.
http://www.tdi-plc.com/Merc300Eclass.htm
and you can stick ready made AMG "kompressor" badges on the wings and boot lid.

 

[grober]

For all MB v8 fans heres a couple of vids of a CLK with a Eisenmann exhaust. enjoy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3MZ6XKpqOs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPqzACoyZAM&mode=related&search=

 

[bolide]

Do you really want to go quicker from 0-60 or do you want the car to be more responsive? Either way you'll want more torque and turbos (or a supercharger) or a bigger engine will do that. What they won't do is turn the car into a sharper car - it'll still gather speed, rather than accelerate, and the added performance will tend to make the car feel sloppier

I think you'll send up spending a fortune on twin turbos. There are a couple of Turbo Technics cars knocking around round the £1500 mark - either buy one of those and raid the bits you need or look at a bigger engine

Personally I'd stick a 500E engine in it. You'll end up with something that's all-Mercedes, with parts you can buy off the shelf and with lots of people around who can help. Modified cars are a pain in the ar$e - believe me, I know - so the closer it is to a standard spec, and the fewer unique parts it uses, the better


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[captainb]

I was discussing this project my friend, he said 1 option was to stick in a Supra engine in. Back in Thailand they do this all the time as the parts are much cheaper and easily available.
I was given this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2QNK8eII0 from Japan. Not sure that I really want to do that though. I'd prefer it to be at least mercedes and 700bhp is getting silly.

If I'm going to put this amount of time and effort not to mention cash the car is for keeps. I always loose tons of cash on cars just on depreciation anyway so why worry about loosing cash on having a modified car if I did want to sell.

I currently I find the car too sluggish especially at take off. My previous car was a bug eye Subaru WRX but I was talked into selling it to use as a house deposit. Women eh ? "...Investment, we need some where to live.. blah, blah"
I want to try and get/near scooby type performance from a 300CE.

Will I not get this from the turbo's or engine transplant is only option ?

What about additional mods maybe overbore, custom pistons, lower lighter crank, after market injection unit eg megasquirt. Absolutley no idea what the cost of machine and custom piston work would be ?

I managed to get hold of this 300CE for good price and I think its an interesting project. I want to carry out as much of the work as possible myself, hopefully I'll get a bit of help along the way.
I'll be Leaving the more specialist machining and fabrication to a shop.

The only turbo kit I've seen is from TDI-PLC and they seem expensive to me. I have no idea why, as I can buy the exact same 2 turbos for £750, There is no way the other gubbins costs £4K Whattheymakingit out of, gold. I have more of an understanding of the £1K fitment price as they have to fit and tune and I'd imagine this takes patience and time. But if they do this all the time they'll whip that in, in notime at all.

On saying all of that I just compared the figures between 500E and 300 24v
500E/E500______________ M119 5.0L V8 240kW(322bhp)@5700 450NM(332lb/ft)@3900 6.1sec 250km/h(155mph) 2.82

Mosselman 300E-24 TT M104 3.0L I6 239kW(320bhp)@6500 425NM(313lb/ft)@4000 5.9sec 241km/h(150mph) 3.27

A lot of work to get to same performance as a 500E. Can I put 300CE body on it ?
T

 

[KLP 92]

I know a chap that has a brand new twin turbo kit for these engines. He has 2 turbos, manifolds, full stainless steel exhaust system, ECU and all fitting kits and instructions. He's after £1500, if you're interested i'll PM his details.

 

[captainb]

Thanks
Yes I'm interested.
Please PM me

 

[scotth_uk]

Hats off to you for this. I've always loved the 300CE24, anyone prepared to give it more grunt in a respectful way gets my support!

 

[captainb]

Update for anyone interested or thinking about this.
Had a long chat with my local customizer about all options.
He has put me off a little about fitting a turbo/supercharger seemed to think that I wouldn't get the performance I want
He sugested:
1. Fit nitrous kit - Can be set up to trickle in a controlled way 80+bhp potential engine damage if overused and I'm unsure of the legality.
2. Turbo - Would only give 35-40hp and long spool time
3. Supercharger - maybe difficult to squeeze in.
4. Small Block V8 Chevy engine -Cost could esculate due to new cooling system and ignition.
5. Various engine transplant options, 500E V8, Supra, Skyline, Soarer - But to get engine worth transplanting in would proably need to buy whiole car and chances are car would be in good condition and begs the question " Why am I doing this ?"
Chances of finding rear ended, MOtfailure slim.
6. Buy 500SEC 2door Coupe - Difficult to find good one within budget.
7. Be happy with what you got its a nice car

There are some guys doing mods currently. I'm going to wait and see how they get on. Unless I see an offfer I can't refuse appears .

 

[Howard]

With regards to item two , the Twin Turbo kit gives 130 bhp increase , maybe even a bit more, not the 35-40 that your customiser reckons ....

I know that Vlad ( a member on here ) and Maggot (another member ) both had/have 300E's with the Mosselman Twin Turbo kit fitted and they really are monstrously fast ....

Best bet i reckon would be to speak to KLP and buy the kit off his mate , it's a tried and tested kit, you won't have to tour scrapyards butchering cars in the cold , and he has all the bits you would need to get it working ...

Ian at 124works.com could definately fit it for you .. or there are enough 124 guys on here who know the Mosselman system to offer advice should you choose to fit it yourself ...

Its a no-brainer .....

 

[aka$h]

To do a turbo technics conversion on the car the things you will need to do:
Full engine rebuild, as they reccomend the car has less than 60k on the clock.
Send pistons and conrods to turbo technics for modification, to bring the compression ratio from 10:1 to 9:1, they want around £500 just for this.
Asides from that its a case of fitting the kit,
Im considering it, but the cost is around £4k after fitting, this was the real reason for my recent thread for a LSD retrofit. Dont forget the kit seems to decrease the value of the car as opposed to add.

 

[captainb]

I did try to PM KLP but I think he's busy or not gotten hold of his mate. I'm hopping to check out Maggots installation soon as he kindly offered me a peek.
Mods always decrease car value and harder to sell but easy to loose 4K on that shiny 2006 model.
The customiser was pointing out that for £4K you could get a lot more power and response than a turbo would ever give. eg fitting Chevy engine.
Turbo is easier to install and you can take it off if you want to sell the car. I was looking at lowering the compression by using a head spacer as a cheaper option to doing rods& pistons. Like you sayyou can lower compression to 9:1 not sure how lumpy it ecomes at this though ? Its within tolerenace limits.
I was looking at redoing gaskets and bearings prior to fitment. Currently at 120K I doubt It will need any machining.
I was hoping to build my own kit for a lot less than 4K.

 

[captainb]

Im Interested in experience of others.
The infamous v8,still to find someone who has done it for real and would reccomend it.

 

[kth286]

captainb

If it is JUST the 0-60 time reduction you are interested in, then just swap the diff for a lower ratio one from another Merc model.

Cheap, simple, quick and easy.

You could achieve sub 6 secs .

The top speed would be limited to 120 mph, but no matter in UK.

The 124 diffs ranged from 2.65 to 3.27 (I have excluded the 2.24 as it was not a UK model)