Young drivers and fast cars,Very sad M5 crash

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not read the thread in question yet but seems terribly sad.

A lad I knew went to his friends 16th birthday house party. His parents were on holiday, and his elder siblings had gone out.

In the spririt of the party it was suggested a spin his Mothers Renault 5 GT Turbo would be fun. Wrapped it round a lampost. Certainly the driver died and maybe a passenger.

Been so long ago that I heard about it that I forget how many died. Just that it was a tragic loss of life that could have so easily been avoided.

Very sad.

 

[LeighW]

.
There but for the grace of God goes many of us if we are truthful. I know and acknowledge that I am bloody lucky to be alive after some of the utterly stupid things I did when I was in my teens and driving.....

....They simply wernt blessed with the luck I had. And thats the truth.

I couldn't agree more. Most of us, if we care to admit it, drove like idiots when we were young. When you're that age, you think you're immortal, it's only with age and experience that you realise how precious life is.

This driver was in many ways also unlucky that he had a father rich and, it has to be said, stupid enough to let his 18 year old son drive his 507bhp car. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see that it was an accident waiting to happen.

Very sad really.

 

[davidjpowell]

It is sad and is clearly going to affect those famalies of the dead for a long time, particuarly the father you would think.

And it is sad to say that 18 year olds will get into trouble in the car. If I think back, or even look at spaces where I felt it was acceptable to overtake, I shudder.

At the time most 18 year olds are driving perhaps older slower cars that are cheaper to buy and insure. On the one hand the sheer speed ability restricts the harm that you can come to, but on the other becasue the cars are smaller and older a crash could still do significant harm, especially as it is not speed that kills, but inappropriate speed.

The problem with cars like the M5 is that it does not matter how well the car is built, a 100 MPH crash is likely to be tragic. If you were doing that speed in a Clio, you would be having all sorts of warning rattles, an M5 is just iddling and I would imagine could easily lull into a sense of security that is false.

One thing that I can say is my step-son will have a 1.2 clio type car if I have any involvement when he is old enough. As a parent you can limit the risk, but can never eliminate them.

 

[AFCNEAL]

Lots of relevant and interesting points of view posted ths far. I'll refrain from offering my tenpennyworth on all but one comment:

Speed is in fact RARELY the cause of accident/injury/death. Whoever posted that is living in cloud cuckoo land! Sure, anything moving (vs standing still) necessarily increases the prospect of contact with something else, but speed itself does not kill - driving at 40 past a school or old folks home at 80 on an empty motorway? I'm pretty sure which one is more dangerous.

People who spout this nonsense are those who are responsible for the nanny, speed camera infested country we live in. Next we'll hear speed cameras are only for safety and have nothing to do with revenue raising!

This lad and his mates may have died due to the impact - which I accept is proportionate to the speed - but it seems he lost control, so it was inappropriate use of speed and inexperience that killed him?

 

[rf065]

so it was inappropriate use of speed and inexperience that killed him?

A combination of that and too much money with no parental control?
I'm not 100% sure, but is the runway not on the estate John Travolta lives on. Private runway, every house has a hanger for their private plane.
The ultimate millionaires row.

Russ

 

[Dryce]

Speed is in fact RARELY the cause of accident/injury/death. Whoever posted that is living in cloud cuckoo land! Sure, anything moving (vs standing still) necessarily increases the prospect of contact with something else, but speed itself does not kill - driving at 40 past a school or old folks home at 80 on an empty motorway? I'm pretty sure which one is more dangerous.

People who spout this nonsense are those who are responsible for the nanny, speed camera infested country we live in. Next we'll hear speed cameras are only for safety and have nothing to do with revenue raising!

Well clearly the authorities agree with you. I would suggest there are more speed cameras located in urban areas near schools to catch those evil 40mphers as opposed to the few that are on country roads and motorways.

I don't have a particular issue with 80mph on an 'empty motorway'. Sadly the statistical fact that it has to be empty means that not many vehicles will be about 9speeding or otherwise). So one might assume that the number of 80mph perpetrators when the motorway is not empty is significantly higher and the conditions significantly more dangerous.

 

[del320]

I am quite unapologetically in full agreement with mattc. Looking over previous posts the usual tired platitudes appear – “tragic”, “sad”, “waste of young life” etc. Sure, that may apply for those immediately affected but for the rest, life goes on.

Day and daily we read of injury and death caused entirely through stupidity, recklessness, alcohol and criminality. I shrug and move on.

You can not legislate for the irresponsibility of (primarily) youth. Whether death and injury is caused on the road, through street violence or simple bravado (e.g. playing chicken on roads and railways), if there is an opportunity for self-destruction, a cretinous element of humanity will embrace it. For them, life really is cheap – call it what you will, natural selection etc – but, if you lie with dogs…

Save your sympathy for innocents caught up in their antics.

 

[AFCNEAL]

Well clearly the authorities agree with you. I would suggest there are more speed cameras located in urban areas near schools to catch those evil 40mphers as opposed to the few that are on country roads and motorways.

I don't have a particular issue with 80mph on an 'empty motorway'. Sadly the statistical fact that it has to be empty means that not many vehicles will be about 9speeding or otherwise). So one might assume that the number of 80mph perpetrators when the motorway is not empty is significantly higher and the conditions significantly more dangerous.

Clearly the authorities do not agree with me as speeding is an absolute defence (i.e. you were) and the proliferation of cameras anywhere shows that the authorities do not differentiate between exceeding the posted speed limit (however ridiculous some are) and driving at an inappropriate speed. I almost agree with you on putting cameras around (e.g.) schools, but then again the danger to anyone at 0300 each day is non-existent?

I don't see your logic on motorways though - travel along any motorway and much of the time you'd be lucky to make it to 70 for very long (due to congestion) so there's no logic in saying there are more 'perpetrators' when the motorway is not empty!

 

[glojo]

I am quite unapologetically in full agreement with mattc. Looking over previous posts the usual tired platitudes appear – “tragic”, “sad”, “waste of young life” etc. Sure, that may apply for those immediately affected but for the rest, life goes on.

Day and daily we read of injury and death caused entirely through stupidity, recklessness, alcohol and criminality. I shrug and move on.

You can not legislate for the irresponsibility of (primarily) youth. Whether death and injury is caused on the road, through street violence or simple bravado (e.g. playing chicken on roads and railways), if there is an opportunity for self-destruction, a cretinous element of humanity will embrace it. For them, life really is cheap – call it what you will, natural selection etc – but, if you lie with dogs…

Save your sympathy for innocents caught up in their antics.
__________________
.

I think those words are very harsh and I'm proud to be a member of thsi excellent forum, hurt my friends and I feel the pain. This young lad joined that forum and imediately made an impression. Some folks admired him, others called him a troll and even worse. The next day this new found friend appears to have passed away, those words were said by forum members who either felt guilty or felt that they had lost a new member of their forum. Look at our forum when someone has a sick pet!! Respect

Regards
John

 

[del320]

Save your sympathy for innocents caught up in their antics.

Shame, John. You do not usually quote selectively.

 

[Trophy1200]

Sad. Video report from a state trooper on site.

http://www.ocala.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...id=301941310&bclid=301794139&bctid=1392485027

 

[glojo]

Shame, John. You do not usually quote selectively.

Apologies Del it was done to simply highlight the rtelevant piece I disagreed with. I rarely if ever quote a whole message but if this editing is causing offence I will evry quickly amend it.

Regards
John

 

[del320]

Thanks, John - PM sent.

 

[crockers]

for some reason I couldnt access the thread -- but gathered from your comments its content.... what a waste of life...

 

[Dryce]

I don't see your logic on motorways though - travel along any motorway and much of the time you'd be lucky to make it to 70 for very long (due to congestion) so there's no logic in saying there are more 'perpetrators' when the motorway is not empty!

As with your 0300 comment - what happens on an empty motorway or empty raod at 0300 in the morning is in effect irrelevant - it's empty. There aren't many perpetrators to catch -- because it's empty (or just about). That's the logic.

Whereas on non-empty motorway with many people speeding (or an urban road that is no empty) there are many potential perps and victims.

Which is why people droning on about being caught on an empty motorway is pretty irrelevant - regardless of the practicality of the speed limit - because it's such a minority activity it's not worth bleating about.

 

[chrispy]

My 17 year old is taking possesion of a new Citroen C2 early June and i've scared the s**t out of him by telling the black box being put in (insurance installment) can also track his speed as well as if he uses the car past 11pm.

The father in this incident has to take the majority of the blame here for letting his son take the car (or even leaving the keys out). I couldn't handle it if that happened to my son and i'd probably end up topping myself if I were in that situation. I've let my son drive my Merc home from my business with me in the passenger seat and he's as careful as can be but what he'd be like without me there I have no idea.

 

[verytalldave]

My 17 year old is taking possesion of a new Citroen C2 early June and i've scared the s**t out of him by telling the black box being put in (insurance installment) can also track his speed as well as if he uses the car past 11pm.

The father in this incident has to take the majority of the blame here for letting his son take the car (or even leaving the keys out). I couldn't handle it if that happened to my son and i'd probably end up topping myself if I were in that situation. I've let my son drive my Merc home from my business with me in the passenger seat and he's as careful as can be but what he'd be like without me there I have no idea.

Probably exactly the same as my 18 year old son.
As you say - frightening.

I now know what my parents went through when I first started driving. No wonder we all go grey with it falling out in handfuls.

 

[neilrr]

This happens all the time in the US, has always happened & will always happen.

Rich kids & fast cars are a way of life & some of them die. Hey ho.

If it wasn't for the Twilight Zone posting on the M5 BB nobody would have said a word & this would have had zero publicity outside the local paper.

 

[verytalldave]

This happens all the time in the US, has always happened & will always happen.

Rich kids & fast cars are a way of life & some of them die. Hey ho.

If it wasn't for the Twilight Zone posting on the M5 BB nobody would have said a word & this would have had zero publicity outside the local paper.

You are obviously not a parent.

 

[neilrr]

Whether I'm a parent or not has nothing to do with this.

When I was 20 I lived in a very affluent beach community of S. California & I knew kids who were 17, 18, 19 years old who drove an Alpina E21 330i, a Porsche 911, a 280ZX Turbo, a Corvette with a 454 & many, many other fast cars. Trans Ams & Z28s were a dime a dozen. An older guy (21!) had a Lamborghini Silhouette.

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying it's a way of life & as American as apple pie & all the hand wringing & tut tutting isn't going to change it one iota.