Your opinion and guidance please. I'm a Newbie.

[The Mirror Man]

Ive always wanted an E estate with the warp around walnut interior of the 2003-08 cars and maybe now is the right time for me. I do about 15k miles a years seeing clients and will spend 1 to 4 hours each way so I'm looking for comfort, a quiet riding, reliability and economy, and a few nice luxury touches too if I can get them.
I've spotted this and wonder what you think
Mercedes-Benz E Class 2.1 E220 CDI Elegance 5dr

My only concern with this one is whether the 150bhp engine will be a bit gut less, and the braking system problems I've read about. And is it a low spec model?

I'd really appreciate your opinions.

Thank you in advance.

 

[wil992]

Iirc elegance is entry level spec, so it won't have much in the way of luxury, but that's all relative, what are you comparing it to?
Also, it's a manual and that makes it a lot less desirable.
Don't know much about that specific model though,others will know more.

 

[The Mirror Man]

Thanks for your input. I like the Elegance because of the walnut. At present I'm on my 4th Rover 75 Connoisseur SE: top spec with everything. I love it to bits but I'm not sure it projects the right image now. Personally Im prefer auto but I'm not that bothered if it's manual.

I know the 75 inside out and how to fix it but apart from a new 06 c200 Compresser I had on contract I don't know much about what might be involved in E ownership.

 

[David404]

I got my 2009 E320 a year ago. Impressed with the ride and it is quiet at 70 on the motorway.

Some general points

Manual Mercedes aren't that common and aren't that desirable, especially so the E class. When I was looking I has a 'core' shopping list:

Saloon preferably a Sport model and post facelift - 2006 on
Auto transmission - preferably 7-GTronic again a post facelift car
Parktronic
Command
Heated front seats

If it fell short on any of the above I wasn't even going to look further at the Ad never mind view the car.

Try for something with service history from main agents or a specialist independent (Indie)

You will need a good local Indie for the occasions when you get a fault and need the code reading, you really do need somebody who has a Star machine to figure out what the car needs.

Good luck with your search.

 

[gaz_l]

The E220 came in 3 flavours - Classic, Elegance and Avantgarde. Classic is the entry level, Elegance mid range and Avantgarde the top spec. I believe the Avantgarde had slightly firmer suspension so if comfort is top priority you might be better off with the Elegance.

The 2.1 diesel is ubiquitous in the Mercedes range, although I've only had experience of it in the Sprinter. It hauled 3.5 tonnes along alright in that so I guess it's going to pull a sub 2 tonne estate car OK as well, although the 10.6 second 0-60 time suggests acceleration is going to be "adequate" rather than "sporting".

Manual Mercedes aren't well loved, for good reason. Mercedes make very good automatic gearboxes and unremarkable manual ones. Also, I see the one you're looking at has the american style foot operated parking brake, which could be tricky to operate when combined with a clutch. Fun on hill starts, I'd imagine.

The other thing I'd mention is that the seller describes it as his "personal" car, which is a strange way for a private seller to describe a vehicle. There's also something funny going on with the registration number - the car is showing K800ARP and that's also shown on the V5 in the ad, but that number's registered to a silver E250 and has been for the last 3 years or so, according to DVLA's MOT history checker. Some of the paperwork shown in the last image on the ad suggests the VRN is actually KM54WLG, and that car's racked up some mileage in the last 3 years - 20K, 24K and 20K again. Not a concern in itself, but there's something there that rings alarm bells for me.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[wemorgan]

Regisearch - Registration: KM54WLG Make: MERCEDES

Brake lines need replacing it seems.

Gaz. I think he's just transfered the plate to his new car.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Elegance v Avantgarde - it's a matter of taste

It's a common mistake to think that the Avantgarde was more expensive. It was positioned as a "more modern " level of trim, whereas the Elegance was positioned as something more...."elegant." The clue is in the name

Previously I had an E55 (W210) with Avantgarde trim, sports suspension, and 20" wheels. It was so uncomfortable in South West London, I vowed never to buy AMG or sports suspension again. (To be fair to the E55 the mistake was running AMG suspension AND 20 inch wheels in London)

You get a softer suspension on the Elegance and harder suspension on the Avantgarde. Broadly, wheel sizes tend to be slightly larger for each model on the Avantgarde, but they do vary from model to model

I believe dashboard and seat leather is limited to black on the Avantgarde, but may be black, grey, or beige leather on the Elegance.

Door handles of the Elegance are trimmed with chrome. Dashboard and door panels may be grey or beige on the Elegance, but will normally be black on the Avantgarde. Elegance uses wood trim, avantgarde Aluminium. There's a higher arm rest on the Elegance.

The S211 E class should be much quieter and smoother than the Rover 75, with maybe another 50% worth of load space. (Note that the back seat bottom cushions flip forward to give you a proper flat surface when the back rest goes down - just in case there's a reason why you're called Mr Mirrorman)

I think it's always 4 power windows on the Elegance, but back power windows were an additional option on the Avantgarde.

Don't - under any circumstances - by a manual E class. It's rubbish but fortunately rare.

The only way to judge whether an engine is suitable is to drive it yourself. With all due respect.... to the Rover 75... if you've been happy with the engine on that, you will be happy with the 220. Bear in mind that most of the Carriage trade running in and out of the airports use the 220, and they do know how to get a lick of speed out of a car.

Talking of which, the only real caveat about buying a 220 is that they can do a quarter of a million miles without showing it. (European airport taxis are the most obvious place to see it). So satisfy yourself that the history is genuine. A privately owned car will be immaculate and perform without fault. An ex-carriage trade car with 80k on the clock and 180k on the engine might present you with a few bills. (Although they're still insanely reliable cars compared to a Rover)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Elegance Estate on eBay

If you want to see a high spec S211 car, there's a grey E500 closing tonight on eBay.

Too juicy, I'm sure for your taste, at 25mpg, but it'll give you an idea of what a light interior Elegance can look like. Although it is VERY light.

I've got no idea how people buy a car without looking at a seller and test driving the car first...but there you go.

Anyway, a typical Elegance spec S211

MERCEDES-BENZ E500 AUTO/ ONE F/OWNER / FULL MAIN DEALER S/HISTORY / E CLASS W211 | eBay

 

[The Mirror Man]

I got my 2009 E320 a year ago. Impressed with the ride and it is quiet at 70 on the motorway.

Some general points

Manual Mercedes aren't that common and aren't that desirable, especially so the E class. When I was looking I has a 'core' shopping list:

Saloon preferably a Sport model and post facelift - 2006 on
Auto transmission - preferably 7-GTronic again a post facelift car
Parktronic
Command
Heated front seats

If it fell short on any of the above I wasn't even going to look further at the Ad never mind view the car.

Try for something with service history from main agents or a specialist independent (Indie)

You will need a good local Indie for the occasions when you get a fault and need the code reading, you really do need somebody who has a Star machine to figure out what the car needs.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks David404

What it Command and Parktronic?
Is there any significant difference between pre and post 06 facelift?

 

[The Mirror Man]

The E220 came in 3 flavours - Classic, Elegance and Avantgarde. Classic is the entry level, Elegance mid range and Avantgarde the top spec. I believe the Avantgarde had slightly firmer suspension so if comfort is top priority you might be better off with the Elegance.

The 2.1 diesel is ubiquitous in the Mercedes range, although I've only had experience of it in the Sprinter. It hauled 3.5 tonnes along alright in that so I guess it's going to pull a sub 2 tonne estate car OK as well, although the 10.6 second 0-60 time suggests acceleration is going to be "adequate" rather than "sporting".

Manual Mercedes aren't well loved, for good reason. Mercedes make very good automatic gearboxes and unremarkable manual ones. Also, I see the one you're looking at has the american style foot operated parking brake, which could be tricky to operate when combined with a clutch. Fun on hill starts, I'd imagine.

The other thing I'd mention is that the seller describes it as his "personal" car, which is a strange way for a private seller to describe a vehicle. There's also something funny going on with the registration number - the car is showing K800ARP and that's also shown on the V5 in the ad, but that number's registered to a silver E250 and has been for the last 3 years or so, according to DVLA's MOT history checker. Some of the paperwork shown in the last image on the ad suggests the VRN is actually KM54WLG, and that car's racked up some mileage in the last 3 years - 20K, 24K and 20K again. Not a concern in itself, but there's something there that rings alarm bells for me.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Cheers,

Gaz

Thanks for your thought Gaz. I've just looked on the DVLA site and it looks like K800ARP is on a 2010, but I'm not great at these things.

 

[The Mirror Man]

It's a common mistake to think that the Avantgarde was more expensive. It was positioned as a "more modern " level of trim, whereas the Elegance was positioned as something more...."elegant." The clue is in the name

Previously I had an E55 (W210) with Avantgarde trim, sports suspension, and 20" wheels. It was so uncomfortable in South West London, I vowed never to buy AMG or sports suspension again. (To be fair to the E55 the mistake was running AMG suspension AND 20 inch wheels in London)

You get a softer suspension on the Elegance and harder suspension on the Avantgarde. Broadly, wheel sizes tend to be slightly larger for each model on the Avantgarde, but they do vary from model to model

I believe dashboard and seat leather is limited to black on the Avantgarde, but may be black, grey, or beige leather on the Elegance.

Door handles of the Elegance are trimmed with chrome. Dashboard and door panels may be grey or beige on the Elegance, but will normally be black on the Avantgarde. Elegance uses wood trim, avantgarde Aluminium. There's a higher arm rest on the Elegance.

The S211 E class should be much quieter and smoother than the Rover 75, with maybe another 50% worth of load space. (Note that the back seat bottom cushions flip forward to give you a proper flat surface when the back rest goes down - just in case there's a reason why you're called Mr Mirrorman)

I think it's always 4 power windows on the Elegance, but back power windows were an additional option on the Avantgarde.

Don't - under any circumstances - by a manual E class. It's rubbish but fortunately rare.

The only way to judge whether an engine is suitable is to drive it yourself. With all due respect.... to the Rover 75... if you've been happy with the engine on that, you will be happy with the 220. Bear in mind that most of the Carriage trade running in and out of the airports use the 220, and they do know how to get a lick of speed out of a car.

Talking of which, the only real caveat about buying a 220 is that they can do a quarter of a million miles without showing it. (European airport taxis are the most obvious place to see it). So satisfy yourself that the history is genuine. A privately owned car will be immaculate and perform without fault. An ex-carriage trade car with 80k on the clock and 180k on the engine might present you with a few bills. (Although they're still insanely reliable cars compared to a Rover)

Thanks for all that Mikeinwimbldon. Lots to think about there. Don't particularly need more room, The Mirror Man is a reference to Human League track: first thing that popped into my head when I registered here.lol.

Are the manuals really all that bad??? I'm thinking that it should be better on fuel at least.

As for reliability of the Rover, they really are a much maligned car. It was only the 1.8 petrol engine that let the side down. My BMW engines 75 is on 125k miles, I've put 30k of those on it without any breakdowns at all. My other 3 75 were the same.

Will I really need a specialist with a Star machine??? Are the Merc Es troublesome?

Really appreciate all this, not least because I like to buy the right car and keep it long term. I like to do all my own maintenance too, so are they DIY friendly??

 

[saff]

I bought my S211 E220 Avantgarde about a year ago. My first ever MB. I don't drive particularly fast but the 150 bhp is indeed adequate, it will cruise effortlessly at motorway speeds, and above and does not lack power at all. I guess a 280 or 320 would suit more if you like the traffic light drag race. Its very economical cruising especially for such a big car. Very comfortable. I've had a few issues with mine but no more than I would expect from a 10 year old car. I think its sorted now. Try to get one with a good service history. Have a drive of a few and make your decision then.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

S211's

....

Are the manuals really all that bad??? I'm thinking that it should be better on fuel at least.

As for reliability of the Rover, they really are a much maligned car. It was only the 1.8 petrol engine that let the side down. My BMW engines 75 is on 125k miles, I've put 30k of those on it without any breakdowns at all. My other 3 75 were the same.

Will I really need a specialist with a Star machine??? Are the Merc Es troublesome?
....
I like to do all my own maintenance too, so are they DIY friendly??

TBH I'm quoting others who say that manuals are to be avoided.... but others can chime in.....

Apologies if you thought me malign the Rover's reliability... wasn't intended...I hear that the 75 is pretty good....but.. Mercedes sell a quarter of a million E's a year, so they have spent quite a lot on getting it right.

Access to a specialist with a Star machine is useful if there's a fault. I believe it's £50 to get someone to look into their magic machine, but it's not something I've needed in 2 1/2 years.

DIY friendly? Well, they're modern, some have some complexity, but you'll see so many quarter of a million milers around, that they must be relatively easy / cheap to maintain. Others can chime in on this - I always buy ex-Main dealer maintenance & use Independents for everything.

Hope this helps. One obvious question, if you're coming from a Rover 75 - why not a much cheaper, more compact C Class?

 

[Smart320]

Bought an 2008 E320cdi Avantgarde auto on 17inch rims from family friend, never having driven one until I collected it. Absolutely love it, suspension not harsh, think the ride is really good balance between grip and comfort. Great drive, does 32/35 on 6/8 mile hilly A road into town and 40/43 mpg on 170 mile runs through central Wales , 45+ mpg on motorways at 70 mph. Am retired so have slowed down a bit but still like to use the power available when overtaking, which is awesome mid range

 

[Piff]

Thanks for all that Mikeinwimbldon. Lots to think about there. Don't particularly need more room, The Mirror Man is a reference to Human League track: first thing that popped into my head when I registered here.lol.

Are the manuals really all that bad??? I'm thinking that it should be better on fuel at least.

As for reliability of the Rover, they really are a much maligned car. It was only the 1.8 petrol engine that let the side down. My BMW engines 75 is on 125k miles, I've put 30k of those on it without any breakdowns at all. My other 3 75 were the same.

Will I really need a specialist with a Star machine??? Are the Merc Es troublesome?

Really appreciate all this, not least because I like to buy the right car and keep it long term. I like to do all my own maintenance too, so are they DIY friendly??

Star is needed for fault code reading and to code replacement equipment.
Auto is what MB is all about. Manual is ok on A & B class, but C class and above, auto is essential for resale.

 

[Piff]

Thanks David404

What it Command and Parktronic?
Is there any significant difference between pre and post 06 facelift?

Comand is the sat nav and entertainment system. Usually radio and cd at that age, but can include TV. Also can include telephone integration.
Parktronic is advanced parking sensors with a display showing increasing light displays for the corner at risk

 

[David404]

Thanks David404

What it Command and Parktronic?
Is there any significant difference between pre and post 06 facelift?

Command = the built in Mercedes Sat Nav system
Parktronic = parking sensors if its the factory fit system you get sensors front and rear.

There was a half-life facelift around 2006 apart from the cosmetic changes think this was when the 7 GTronic box was added (previous was 5 speed) the brake system was changed and the old SBS system replaced. the SBS system had a definite life and failed, replacement was expensive. the facelift car got a raft of engineering upgrades including 'pre-safe' stuff triggered when the car senses an imminent accident.

 

[wemorgan]

Thanks for your thought Gaz. I've just looked on the DVLA site and it looks like K800ARP is on a 2010, but I'm not great at these things.

That's almost certainly the new car which he's transferred his personalised plate to.