1970 250C - starting but not running

[Charles Morgan]

My only observation is the lack of fuel return pipe inlet, or am I ok just hooking this up back into the tank and not via the pump?

This is bugging me somewhat. If the return pipe was attached to the pump what was attached to the return on the fuel tank? Given the position of the return feeder pipe on the tank, if this wasn't connected to a pipe fuel would be pouring all over the place.

When you're back we need to have a look at the existing arrangements as something sounds odd.

 

[Stuarts]

Here's a pic of the pump I took before removing it.

 

[Stuarts]

Sitting at the airport awaiting my flight home, just compiling a list of bits I need to finish off the car.
Could I get a pointer in the right direction for these bits please?
Blue text or leather seat covers
Blue carpet set
Waistline chrome trims (some a bit dinged) - either full set or individual bits
Another fuel pump?
Tyres - 175 HR 14's

Cheers

 

[Charles Morgan]

I have the fuel pump taken off my 250CE I can check today (it's at the restorers) but that doesn't look like it!

As to the other bits - leather covers are around, depends on your budget but I'd be careful of cheap ones without having repaired the seats underneath. I had my seats completely rebuilt and recovered in period correct leather by KHM in Esslingen. They were not cheap but the results are spot on - do yours need repair or full recovering?

Blue carpet set - yours is left hand drive so you can find inexpensive ones on ebay like this . I had mine made for me at KHM out of two tone loop and they look spot on original.

Chrome trims - I know someone who has a few - any particular ones?

Fuel pump - lets sort out the correct pump first, it shouldn't be difficult.

Tyres - I'd convert to a slightly wider tyre - you can go up to 195 without problem. I've put 15 inch wheels on as I prefer the stance and tyres are more available. Let me look up the modern equivalent of 175 in 14s.

 

[Charles Morgan]

w114 facebook group came back with 175/70 14 or 175 75 14 or 175 80 14 (the latter apparently the closest to original) as alternatives to the original 175 14

175 /70s have much more availability.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Fuel pump (right hand side with fuel pot(?) on left taken off my W114 250CE (ignore the black paint) with hoses - it's the same as the above. I suspect it's the three hoses (one more than on a W202 pump) and the interaction with the fuel pot that is making the difference.

From a different angle

I checked my pump and it is working, so it would make life very straightforward. The correct MB part number for it is A0010917401.

 

[grober]

THAT DESIGN OF PUMP IS VERY REMINISCENT OF THE BOSCH PUMP USED ON THE 914 INJECTION system. its an over pressure system orginally designed to flow extra fuel to cool a mechanical injection system pump. Extra fuel is routed back to the pump which also has an internal bypass i believe??? the original D jet pump is much simpler affair but has not been availabel for some time hence perhaps a retrofit? with mods!!!
Mercedes W107 W108 W116 D-Jet Fuel Pump Bosch 72-74 450SL 280SEL 0 580 464 005 | eBay

MFI Simplification Project - Help wanted! - Page 2 - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

here's a rebuild thread on the orginal pump

DIY D-Jet Fuel Pump Rebuild - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 

[Stuarts]

Fuel pump (right hand side with fuel pot(?) on left taken off my W114 250CE (ignore the black paint) with hoses - it's the same as the above. I suspect it's the three hoses (one more than on a W202 pump) and the interaction with the fuel pot that is making the difference.

From a different angle

I checked my pump and it is working, so it would make life very straightforward. The correct MB part number for it is A0010917401.

Cheers, that is exactly how mine was and just the thing I'm after!

 

[Charles Morgan]

I'll see if I can get the moderators to enable your Private Messaging (you need 30 posts) to sort details and then I can get it to you.

 

[grober]

https://translate.googleusercontent...c.html&usg=ALkJrhhY2dKSopRlpLIsZwX8jHryvvbxFA

according to this rather crude translation there were 3 types of fuel pump
so I may have misled you.
https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...ichacht-forum.de/read.php?1,53484&prev=search
e.g.

Hello,

So Bosch said:

250CE 4.69-3.70: Fuel Pump 0580970002
250CE 4.70-9.70: Fuel Pump 0580970004
250CE 10.70-4.72: Fuel Pump 0580464005

These are roller vane pumps.

0580970002
Roller vane pump for petrol promotion, without a filter, 2 hose nozzle diameter 8 mm for printing and Ruecklaufanschluss, 1 hose nozzle diameter 10 mm for suction, Permanent Motor 12V 40W power input, screw side
Type 2/120 CP 40/12/1
replaced by 0580970004
Flow rate min. 100 l / min, max. 820 l / min
Pressure 2.0 bar

0580970004
Type 2/120 CP 40/12/2
Armature shaft diameter 8 mm
all other technical data like 0580970002
Replacement for 0580970002

0580464005
Roller vane pump for gasoline promotion with pressure regulator without filter, Permenentmotor 12V 40W input power not bored with flat terminals without mounting clamp, medium nozzle on the pump when the pressure port 1 Motorgehaeusedeckel, for Durchspuelung
Type DG 2/120 CP 40/12/15
Flow rate min. 90 l / min, max. 750 l / min
Pressure 2.0 bar
Wafer with second pressure groove and with overflow valve, hose nozzle diameter 12 mm for suction port side of the engine cover Pressure port with hose nozzle diameter 8 mm

The first two are clearly among themselves interchangeable. The last has other connections.

Mercedes does not distinguish Year but after FGST No .:
- To 014 884: A0010917401
- From 014 885: A0010917101

Probably corresponds to the first so the Bosch ... 002/004, the second of Bosch ... 005th

Used lists of Bosch pumps:
0580970002:
0580970004: MB 250 CE (4.69-4.72), MB 280 SEC 3.5 (1.70-12.71), MB 300 SEL 3.5 (1.70-7.72)
0580464005: many MB D-Jetronic from approximately the end of 1971 (W107, W108, W114, W116)

 

[Stuarts]

Charles,
Here's my email address if that's easier to sort out?
[email protected]

Cheers

 

[Stuarts]

Here's the problem with the seats.
Both front and rear have faded badly in the Italian heat, plus the rear has some stains on that I can't remove.

On the trim side, it's both door chrome trims and the one across the rear boot.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Stuarts - email sent, you might want to scrub the email address sharpish from your post.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Here's the problem with the seats.
Both front and rear have faded badly in the Italian heat, plus the rear has some stains on that I can't remove.

On the trim side, it's both door chrome trims and the one across the rear boot.

I am sure those stains will come out with the right kit (which I have). Where are you?

The cloth (apart from colour) looks to be in decent condition. To re-cover (and inevitably restore the seats below) is not cheap and does take a long time. I had my seats done in Germany by KHM as they were off the car for the restoration.

 

[Stuarts]

Hi again Charles,
Yes, cloth is ok - apart from the base of the drivers seat - which is badly ripped and does need a replacement cloth section.
So maybe I could look to re-dye the cloth sections and get some material for the drivers base (my mother is an ex-tailor and has successfully repaired Porsche seats for me in the past). Anybody know where the best place is for a section of cloth?

I'm in Northampton.

p.s. for some reason I can't edit the post with my email on. If some one could assist, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Cheers

 

[Charles Morgan]

If the cloth is gone at the front do the whole lot. Removing heavily bleached and dried out cloth is a recipe for it tearing.

I think the cloth that should be on yours (it's difficult to make out the pattern from the photo it is so degraded) is available from KHM in Germany. Scroll down the page to W114/W115.

 

[Charles Morgan]

My friend has sold his side chrome trims so no luck there. You can't edit posts after half an hour so if you contact the admins (contact us at the bottom of the page) they might be very kind and edit it for you.

 

[Charles Morgan]

Further research shows my first cloth link is wrong - that is series 2, whereas your car Stuart is Series 1.

The correct cloth for Series 1 250s is in the link here - 006/007 light beige. I don't yet know where to find this.

Edit - there is a potential supplier but he needs a decent total ordered before production. You can register your order here. The light beige is not currently in stock, but at least there is some hope.

 

[Stuarts]

guys,
I'm really stuck with this fuel pump problem.
I've got the car booked in for some paint next Monday and really don't want to loose the slot.
Any ideas where I can source a suitable pump quickly?
Cheers

 

[Owensie]

Hi Charles

Do you know anywhere I could get hold of some decent W114 coupe doors for a 71 car

Cheers

Steve