ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CREW VANS MAYBE VITO DUALINER?

[rockits]

I recently sold the Toyota Hilux Invincible Double Cab pickup we had in the business as it didn't really suit my needs. I inherited it from an outgoing Director and it was massive but didn't really use the back seats as it was all work use. We had the back box so it had a decent sized load area but wasn't much better than a large estate really.

I have been using my XC90 mainly for work use and it is a great all in one car. However still a bit compromised for my broad use. So have decided a mid sized van would be better. It will only be used for work use so a commercial the business can claim the VAT back for and get decent tax relief on. So something like Vito, Transporter, Trafic, Vivaro, Dispatch, Expert etc.

I will mainly use driving on my own however with some jobs sometimes another person or 2 or 3 so a crew van works well. I can get other contractors in when occasionally required or remove the 2nd row of seats to increase load-space when not required. The Vito is very car like to drive with 2 good captain style armchair seats rather than 3 across the front. Therefore more comfortable for me most of the time. You can get a Vito with a 3.0 V6 diesel and decent auto box and the Sport especially with the Brabus alloys looks decent enough.

Now there are obvious complexities that HMRC has introduced around some of these crew vans being vans. With some being regarded as a car then attracting BIK tax. Most of this seems to be around 3 key points. It is generally regarded as a van for tax purposes if:
1. The payload is over 1000kg.
2. The load space is bigger than the passenger space.
3. If it is used for business/commercial use with zero, inconsequential or very occasional personal use (emergencies or when other car does start etc.)

Has anyone looked at these or done this or have any knowledge, advice or opinions please?

 

[rockits]

Anyone know if the earlier Vito's payload was over a ton or is it only the later model 2015 on I think?

 

[daveenty]

You need a chat with the Guru of all things Vito: @BIG UN

 

[rockits]

You need a chat with the Guru of all things Vito: @BIG UN

Thanks....I will drop him a line.

 

[GordonTarling]

BTB500 here is also very knowledgeable about Vitos, he'll probably chime in soon, anyway.

 

[m80]

What age are you looking for?

If 2nd hand the travelliner can have the floor rails for easy in / out rear seats, so possible from no seats, 1 captain seat to 4 captain seats, or if bench seating up to 6 rear seats.
If you look on Auto trader it's easy to check the tax class on most and seems that about 50 / 50 are rated N1 commercial, as was my 115 when I had it. Mapped there is ample power, certainly for my needs. Now I have the V6 and don't feel the advantage, although perhaps a little quiter.
The economy and bullet proof engine of the in 4 cyl inline 646 might be a better choice than the V6 642.

 

[rockits]

What age are you looking for?

If 2nd hand the travelliner can have the floor rails for easy in / out rear seats, so possible from no seats, 1 captain seat to 4 captain seats, or if bench seating up to 6 rear seats.
If you look on Auto trader it's easy to check the tax class on most and seems that about 50 / 50 are rated N1 commercial, as was my 115 when I had it. Mapped there is ample power, certainly for my needs. Now I have the V6 and don't feel the advantage, although perhaps a little quieter.
The economy and bullet proof engine of the in 4 cyl inline 646 might be a better choice than the V6 642.

Ideally used but will look at new or nearly new if I need to. I would say a 5 seat with two front spacious seats makes sense with the 2nd row 3 seat removable when required gives good flexibility between carrying contractors and/or loads. Seems like the 2.1/2.2 4 Cylinder diesels are decent enough although as you say the V6 will be smoother/quieter I expect.

I don't think a traveliner would be regarded as a commercial unless I was a taxi would it? I prefer the look of the 2nd gen but the 3rd gen from 2014/2015 looks more likely. It makes sense to get a later more efficient engine so definetly Euro 5 ideally Euro 6 to give a bit of future proofing. Will need to be auto as well.

Looks like £15-£20k but £15k would be a nicer budget.

 

[BTB 500]

We have a 2007 Dualiner 120 (3.0 V6) - I can look up the payload tonight if necessary. Ours is only used as a personal 'car' so can't help on the BIK tax side of things, but it's classed as a commercial vehicle for road tax. It qualifies as a 'Dual Purpose Vehicle' so normal car speed limits apply, rather than the lower van ones.

With regard to the loadspace you should probably steer clear of the 'Compact' and go for a 'Long' (often advertised as 'LWB' which is wrong ... only the Extra Long has a longer wheelbase). The other advantage of the Long (and Extra Long) is that you get an under-slung spare wheel carrier. The Compact doesn't have enough space behind the back axle for this, so you end up with the spare inside the van somewhere (or no spare). AFAIK none of the special edition ones with the Brabus wheels get a spare wheel though.

Many Dualiners do have 3 front seats (2 was a factory option). The special edition ones have 2 as standard though. We have 3 front seats on ours which is fine for the driver (with the optional Comfort Seating package) but not so good for the passengers! The Comfort rear seats split 2/1 (we normally have the single removed), with individual reclining backrests on all seats. The seat backs fold flat or you can flip the whole seat forwards, so you can actually get a fair amount of stuff in without removing them. As you would expect they are pretty heavy to lift in and out, particularly the 2-seat unit.

We've had ours from new and up to this year it's been great. The V6 is powerful, smooth & quiet, although fuel consumption only averages about 25 mpg. However this year it's cost me £6.5k on repairs and been off the road for 6 or 7 weeks, which is not so good. Fuel pressure sensor, EGR valve, MAF sensor, DPF temp sensor, new manifolds & turbo (this is an engine out job on the V6) and a new instrument cluster. It's only on 96k miles, FMBSH. Previously the CPS and DPF pressure sensor went, maybe we've just been extremely unlucky as obviously the OM642 has been used in most MB models over the years.

Anything else, just shout.

 

[rockits]

Thanks....really useful.

 

[m80]

6-7 weeks off the road, lucky you.

I thought the N1 classification meaning lower road tax also meant lower speed limits on the A road dual carraigeways.
Normal car speed limits mean M1 class and higher tax cost.

Buying second hand the vehicle is already classified into a tax bracket and is very difficult to change.
My Vito 115 was N1 and restricted to 60 where the Viano (M1) can now do 70.

I am told that all V6 V's have the DPF, mine will average 24 / 25mpg with careful right foot and 58mph cruising,
same drive style in the 115 got me an average of 31.6, but no DPF.
The V6 has been having a lot of issues for the past 6 months so a reasonable consumption comparrison isn't really fair on it. But when both were running well the best the 115 returned was 40.1 over 394 miles, the V6 best 32.1 over 433 miles, both 639, both auto, both calculated.

Traveliner payload 1,010 Kg, it was an ex taxi.
Viano 825Kg.

I would like to try a 2.1 Viano to compare to mine for smoothness and quitness, as I think there is extra sound insulation and certainly a better prop on the Viano (mine anyway). As the 642 has many possible issues I'm deciding if the higher quality is placebo, and then if it is worth the extra fuel and repair costs.
Then to factor in any off road time and there may not be a real competition.

 

[BTB 500]

There's no link between road tax class and speed limits - it's based solely on whether a vehicle meets the criteria for being a Dual Purpose Vehicle or not:

Car-derived vans and dual purpose vehicles

Specifically for the Vito Dualiner, the one to watch is the maximum unladen weight of 2040 kg ... a V6 can exceed this, depending on factory options.

Yes all V6s have a DPF (and auto gearbox, and aircon). On a long motorway run at 120 kph (75 mph) ours will hit 30-31 mpg, but 25 is a normal average.

 

[rockits]

Been looking some more at vans again when I get the time. Seems hard work on some vans to find the payload KG often though with so many variations. One thing that I have discovered though is the massive differences in some payload figures depending on the van and spec.

Came across a nice Vito 119 Sport Crew cab/van on here. Altough it seems to payload is quite low and will be an HMRC issue.

We have an old Peugeot Bipper Professional 1.4HDi that we bought new a few years back. Simple small little van with 70bhp and 160nm torque and 2.5m cubic load space. With 1700kg total gross weight and kerb weight at 1090kg so payload is 610kg.

The Vito I was looking at seems nice but the payload is really surprising and an issue as I need it to be minimum 1000kg payload to satisfy HMRC tax guieldines. Or it could be taxed as a company vehicle with BIK on its new price of £45k!

This Vito is a 2016/66 119 Sport Crew Cab Compact/L1 so a 2800 total gross weight but with a kerb weight of 2127kg means the payload is only 673kg.

Is it me or does that seem very low? The Vito has 190bhp and 440nm torque but can only carry a load of 63kg or one small male adult more than a 1.4HDi Bipper. Seems odd to me. If you presume that the kerb weight is without passengers although some are including a 75kg driver. With a amx of 6 x 75kg passengers your load weight is then down to only 373kg. Just seems odd to me that it can't carry much.

I thought they point of a van is that it can carry stuff. I understand the crew cab and the sport with the biggest 119 engine and auto box is going to be the heaviest but it has really surprised me. It is about as much weight as 15 packs of 10 laminate flooring boards.

 

[BTB 500]

The W639 Vito had a factory option (code XA2) for uprated GVW, giving payloads of over 1000 kg. Does the W447 not have this?

 

[rockits]

Looks like later models had higher GVW at 3.05 and 3.2 but this 2016 on the V5 says 2800.

 

[rockits]

Looks like first few years of W447 were crew compact had 2.8kg GVW. Then at some point the crew compact became 3.05t maybe at time it changed moniker from compact to L1. Still would make all the difference as the Sport Crew would be too heavy any way even with 3.05t GVW. There is a big difference in weight between non-crew and crew then lower spec to sport. Add Sport to crew and they are chuffin heavy old beasts.

 

[BTB 500]

Just bear in mind that if the unladen weight (not the same as kerb weight) goes over 2040 kg you'll legally be limited to 'van' speeds, even if you have centre seats & windows (because it then no longer qualifies as a Dual Purpose Vehicle).

 

[rockits]

Thanks. I guess that is starting to make it worse. I wonder why they bother making heavy vans that can't carry enough and then fall foul of commercial speed regards.

I suppose the longer wheelbase models will have a higher GVW so the payload is better but the vehicle will still start to come into commercial speed regs.

I think the crew van is some 200 odd kg heavier. I might be better just going for non crew option and the smaller Caddy Maxi petrol DSG isn't looking so bad any more. A bit annoying as I thought the Vito would be a perfect option. Although in a non-crew van the payload of over 1000kg is not an issue.