news: Diesel engines 'pose health risk'

[Dieter]

Hi,

If you want info concerning diesels 'click' here:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/diesel1.htm

A paragraph from this site which answers some of your points follows:.

"Diesel fuel evaporates more slowly because it is heavier. It contains more carbon atoms in longer chains than gasoline does (gasoline is typically C9H20, while diesel fuel is typically C14H30). It takes less refining to create diesel fuel, which is why it is generally cheaper than gasoline.

Diesel fuel has a higher energy density than gasoline. On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately 155x106 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains 132x106 joules (125,000 BTU). This, combined with the improved efficiency of diesel engines, explains why diesel engines get better mileage than equivalent gasoline engines."

My comment on this is that the statement re: "diesel cheaper than gasoline" is true in most of Europe but not the UK. As use of diesel fuel is solely responsible for global dimming (quote from previous post) which is a major factor counteracting global warming then should'nt we be encouraged burn more diesel. Thus the increased use of bigger diesel burning 4 x 4's could be seen as protection against petrol fuelled global warming

For a more rational view on global dimming (i.e. it's not all down to diesels etc.) click here:

http://www.globalissues.org/EnvIssues/GlobalWarming/globaldimming.asp

The effects of use of fossil fuels on our environment is significant. The effect of not using fossil fuels would be catastrophic. That is the nub of the problem. The USA wishes to protect its economy and this can only be achieved at a (perceived) cost to the environment etc. Unfortunately survival of the fittest (most developed) etc. is also a natural (Gaia) phenomenon (even if it's not 'right' nor 'fair').

Cheers,

Dieter

 

[gary350]

If any have doubts on diesel performance you need to see the link I put on the general forum although its titled SLK and SL its in fact the new range for all mercs, the SLK tri turbo 320cdi is likely to be awesome,faster than my 350, I also imagine that pollution is also being enhanced, you could sing along (like the Honda ad) for all those that like to hate.

gary

 

[peterchurch]

If any have doubts on diesel performance you need to see the link I put on the general forum although its titled SLK and SL its in fact the new range for all mercs, the SLK tri turbo 320cdi is likely to be awesome,faster than my 350, I also imagine that pollution is also being enhanced, you could sing along (like the Honda ad) for all those that like to hate.

gary

BUT, would the roar of a 320CDI evoke the same feelings as the roar of a V6/V8/12 petrol model? I am happy admit that when I am sat at the traffic lights, and an Aston Martin or an old skool air cooled Porsche Turbo or TVR rolls up. I turn the music down, open the windows and just listen There is an untouchable coolness about the bubbling of the engine, that just makes me want to listen and on the odd occasion that you get somone that remembers how to drive a ferrari and lets it go... Bliss!
I am willing to try an s320 CDI, because I apreciate the smoothness and power of the new diesels. But to put the unit in an SLK or god forbid an SL where the driver might hear it Sorry thats just plain wrong If you really need more speed then buy an AMG or Brabus or a Kleemans (IMHO)

By the way I am very happy to be proved wrong about a Diesel SL
(be warned you would have an uphill task just typing that statement makes me want to choke )

 

[MainMan]

In response to Dieter's misquote, I didn't actually say the soot was "solely" due to diesel engines. In fact the word solely doesn't occur in my post. He also seems to have missed the point but what's new. As for diesels being more efficient than petrol engines, this is a consequence of the basic laws of thermodynamics which state that the efficiency of an internal combustion engine is directly proportional to its compression ratio. Diesels have nearly double the compression ratio of petrol engines.

 

[gary350]

BUT, would the roar of a 320CDI evoke the same feelings as the roar of a V6/V8/12 petrol model? I am happy admit that when I am sat at the traffic lights, and an Aston Martin or an old skool air cooled Porsche Turbo or TVR rolls up. I turn the music down, open the windows and just listen There is an untouchable coolness about the bubbling of the engine, that just makes me want to listen and on the odd occasion that you get somone that remembers how to drive a ferrari and lets it go... Bliss!
I am willing to try an s320 CDI, because I apreciate the smoothness and power of the new diesels. But to put the unit in an SLK or god forbid an SL where the driver might hear it Sorry thats just plain wrong If you really need more speed then buy an AMG or Brabus or a Kleemans (IMHO)

By the way I am very happy to be proved wrong about a Diesel SL
(be warned you would have an uphill task just typing that statement makes me want to choke )

peterchurch - the diesel going into the SL is the V8 400cdi,although I do not do the miles to get worried about consumption the thought of buying something that will double my mpg and be faster might just make me forget exhaust noises or engine burbling, its the smell that would turn me off, being in a droptop. They are getting very close to getting around all the shortfalls of diesel motoring, close but not that close.

gary

 

[peterchurch]

peterchurch - the diesel going into the SL is the V8 400cdi,although I do not do the miles to get worried about consumption the thought of buying something that will double my mpg and be faster might just make me forget exhaust noises or engine burbling, its the smell that would turn me off, being in a droptop. They are getting very close to getting around all the shortfalls of diesel motoring, close but not that close.

gary

Doubling MPG while your car drops 40K in the first two years is a false economy in my mind I am pretty sure that it doesn't weigh very highly on the mind of anyone that can afford these cars new either. Exhaust note has everything to do with a sportcars choice because it anounces your arrival and departure. The SL is about sleak effortless cruising balanced with smooth power when you want to leave. I just cant see the kudos of pulling up in an SL that stinks and goes Clackety Clack

 

[gary350]

I just cant see the kudos of pulling up in an SL that stinks and goes Clackety Clack

Back to the Honda ad, (for those that love to hate can hate be good) might just be worthwhile trying the new diesels out, keep an open mind.

gary

 

[Dieter]

Hi Mainman,

Below is an extract from your post:

"The reason for this has been tracked down to soot particles in clouds - no prizes for guessing where the soot comes from. These particles make the clouds behave, to an extent, like a mirror and reflect back sunlight into space. Without this effect global warming would already have had a disastrous effect on the planet. So while we all develop lung cancer and die because of the diesel pollution..."

I agree you never used the word 'solely' but ..

the initial title of this thread related to diesel 'pollution', and there is, IMHO, a definite linking of soot, global dimming and diesel pollution etc. I believe I agreed with your point that, paradoxically global dimming has ameliorated the effects of global warming etc.

So where does the soot come from? (and I don't want a prize)

If you had actually clicked on the site I posted relating to diesel engines etc. you would have seen that the reason diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines is:

"Ultimately Diesel fuel has a higher energy density than gasoline. On average, 1 gallon (3.8 L) of diesel fuel contains approximately 155x106 joules (147,000 BTU), while 1 gallon of gasoline contains 132x106 joules (125,000 BTU). This, combined with the improved efficiency (due to higher compression ratio) is a more complete explanation as to why diesel engines get better mileage than equivalent gasoline engines."

'Clean' diesel engines are the (near) future.

Cheers

 

[Dieselman]

There is a phenomenon called "global dimming" which relates to the observation that the amount of light reaching the earth has been decreasing over the years - 15% less now than 10 years ago. The reason for this has been tracked down to soot particles in clouds - no prizes for guessing where the soot comes from.

If I give you the RIGHT answer do I get a prize?

Industrial pollution and in particular aircraft.

Please don't try to blurr the argument by holding back on the truth.

You obviously watched the documentary on TV where it was clearly stated that the clouds were produced by aircraft contrails, and that although they dissapear to the naked eye don't when viewed by satellites.

Also the problem was more to do with condensation in the clouds producing a mirror effect thus reflecting the suns energy back out.

 

[Dieselman]

How come in California which has the most stringent emission laws anywhere in the world does not allow the sale of Diesels (even CDIs) due to their particulate emissions, whereas petrol engines are fine?

There seems to be some contradictions with some of the views posted here.

It's because the S**T fuel sold in the states doesn't work in modern diesels and particularly ones with Cats and particulate traps.

If you think a petrol engined car doesn't emit pollution then think again. If you don't consider CO2 and PM2.5s to be pollutants then I'm not sure what is.

PM2.5s are now considered the health risk particulates and CO2 is the greatest global warming problem because as the Earths atmosphre only contains 2% the ballance is the easiest to upset with the greatest consequences. CO2 is what makes the insulant that traps the Earths heat.

Think, why did the Chancellor adjust vehicle taxation in relation to CO2 output, presumably it wasn't to lose revenue?

 

[Robbo]

If you think a petrol engined car doesn't emit pollution then think again. If you don't consider CO2 and PM2.5s to be pollutants then I'm not sure what is.

No, I dont think I ever suggested that. It just stuck me as odd that there is all this talk of low emissions, yet some environmantally strict states in the US ban Diesel engines (They are on sale in other us states).

 

[Benzowner]

CO2 is what makes the insulant that traps the Earths heat.

Think, why did the Chancellor adjust vehicle taxation in relation to CO2 output, presumably it wasn't to lose revenue?

He aint stopped breathing yet he aint stpped the cows producing methane either, bet he's thinking of a way tho

 

[Dieselman]

He aint stopped breathing yet he aint stpped the cows producing methane either, bet he's thinking of a way tho

Which gas does the chancellor breathe then, Co2 or methane?????

 

[sparkyspost]

Well I think he breathes out methane with all the BS he likes to spew...



Sparky

 

[Dieter]

Are you implying the Chancellor talks out of his a..e (a rich source of methane).

Cheers

 

[peterchurch]

Are you implying the Chancellor talks out of his a..e (a rich source of methane).

Cheers

Along with his boss and the rest of the party

 

[sparkyspost]

Are you implying the Chancellor talks out of his a..e (a rich source of methane).

Cheers

Who Moi?

Never...


Sparky

 

[gary350]

Whatcar May 2005 says that the cost of diesels could rise by as much as 2K per car to meet new emission laws, manufacturers are saying some of the cost maybe swallowed up by them, that is alot of ifs and maybes. By the way the merc 220cdi did not come out very well against the new 3 series audi and jag diesels, in fact it came last.

gary

 

[glojo]

No, I dont think I ever suggested that. It just stuck me as odd that there is all this talk of low emissions, yet some environmantally strict states in the US ban Diesel engines (They are on sale in other us states).

Hi Robbo,
I have avoided this thread because I disagree with its heading, but enough, is enough. Folks must really stop reading US reports. Just mention 'Kyoto' to any US politician and then stand by. The US has not got the same pollution restrictions as more 'civilised' countries. Their diesel fuel would not be allowed in European countries because of its poor quality.

When our 'President' (Prime Minister) takes over chairmanship of the G8 group of countries the US has already told Blair that if he tries putting pressure on the US to cut down their pollution, they will withdraw our favoured trading terms.

California is one of the states that has banned the sale of the CDI diesel but it is a laughable ban. You can buy a CDI powered diesel but it has to comply with certain conditions that I personally am not an authority on. (I believe the car must have done at least 5000 miles??? before you can buy it) There are many, many happy owners of the 320CDI that live in California.

US surveys are fine for the US, but please take them with a pinch of salt. JD Power is always my favourite example of the 'salt' factor. I can remember the days of smog and horrible pollution, just look at pictures of some US cities and the horrible pollution clouds. (Just realised I went into a political rant, sorry)

Suffice it to say that the quality of European diesel fuel is far superior to the US fuel.

Regards,
John