Now then, now then guys and gals.....

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Bellow said:
You cannot pressgang me into a yes/no answer. But I'll answer. It will be the same answer no matter who the person is or my relationship with them.

If the alleged abuser is still alive I advise report to police.
If the alleged abuser is still alive and there is credible evidence I advise report to police and demand prosecution.
If the alleged abuser is dead I advise that it has been left too late and counselling would be a better course of action.

Three different scenarios requiring different responses.

Now you answer me. Why the need to reduce what I have said (consistently) to an A or B question?
Click to expand...

Because I wanted a clear and specific answer to a clear and specific question - what would you say to your child.

Now I know.

Thank you.

Now please refer to my note re Godwin's law - I won't be replying further as this thread has, IMHO, plunged beyond meaningful debate.
 
This is all crazy now :/

Comparing this 'case' to other random or hypothetical examples is pointless. He either did this, or he didn't. The only way that'll ever be resolved is by a proper and thorough investigation.

My view is this; until there is a solid answer by Police, then I'm just going to assume he's innocent, and my opinion of him will be as it was, a great entertainer. IF it's shown by the Police that he was quite clearly guilty of these offences, then I'll obviously need to revise that.

Every girl (or boy for that matter) who has been a victim of abuse at the hands of another deserves to have their abuser outed, and dealt with (obviously a tough thing to do if they are already dead, but you know). But painting a man as an abuser without a clear conviction is a dangerous thing to do, quite frankly it scares me how easy this is to do as well.

Imagine YOU were accused of this, and you knew you were totally innocent. Imagine then also that a documentary was made about this - even though you had never been convicted of such a thing. It would absolutely RUIN you. It's a stain that would more than likely outlive your physical lifespan, and would affect those that knew you and your family.

I feel sometimes like we still have a middle ages attitude to things today, and it's appalling.

"She's a witch! My friend saw her once catch a frog and cook it maybe!"
"That's enough evidence for us, SHE'S GUILTY, BURN HER!".

People who are brave enough to go on TV about this should quite easily be brave enough to all go to the Police too. And no, I don't mean to call them liars, but really - priorities people. I can't ever imagine a situation where I'd rather go on national TV and bear all, instead of talking to the authorities instead - or first. I know a few did this, but not enough of them.
 
duplicate due to refreshing.
 
Last edited:
brucemillar said:
So if the alleged abuser is dead? Don't report it.
Click to expand...

In the case of a known family member being the abuser, after having 20 years to report it and not while the abuser was still alive, what could be gained by reporting it?

Why waste police time with something that can have no positive outcome but will waste police resources and time that could be devoted to apprehending living abusers?
 
Bellow said:
In the case of a known family member being the abuser, after having 20 years to report it and not while the abuser was still alive, what could be gained by reporting it?

Why waste police time with something that can have no positive outcome but will waste police resources and time that could be devoted to apprehending living abusers?
Click to expand...

An investigation would however show if others were involved (who may very well still be alive) - and bring those people to justice. It does have a role to play, despite him being dead.
 
MercFanUk said:
An investigation would however show if others were involved (who may very well still be alive) - and bring those people to justice. It does have a role to play, despite him being dead.
Click to expand...

In the case I'm referring to no others were involved other than the grandfather.
Unless you turn to those that just turned a blind eye that is....
 
Bellow said:
In the case I'm referring to no others were involved other than the grandfather.
Unles you start with those that just turned a blind eye that is....
Click to expand...

I mean in this Jimmy situation. But I believe that in any case like this, turning a blind eye is as much aiding and abetting the abuser. There may well be people who the abused never see who help arrange things also, or even cover things up and help provide alibis etc. Of course there may be no one else at all, but it deserves to be examined to make sure in such serious circumstances. Not everything is always as black and white as it might first look.

It can also help to find new ways of protecting those who may become victims in the future by discovering just what made it so easy for the abuser (if there indeed was one of course), and lessons learned can be applied to other investigations of similar matters.
 
Last edited:
MercFanUk said:
It can also help to find new ways of protecting those who may become victims in the future by discovering just what made it so easy for the abuser (if there indeed was one of course), and lessons learned can be applied to other investigations of similar matters.
Click to expand...

Doubt it.

The underlying patterns are:


  • An abuser who is motivated and predatory and gains a position of relative power.
  • People around ignore the (obvious) signs either because they are not prepared to see what's going on or are not prepared to deal with what they see going on.
  • The abused don't tend to report either because they are indoctrinated or ashamed or scared.
Nothing new going on. And TV is based on strong personalities and plenty of unempowered people chasing jobs in the lower echelons with a dose of nepotism mixed in.

None of this is exactly new or needs to be especially understood.

However - socially things may have changed a bit since the 60s and 70s with those seeing what goes on more prepared to react, access to children a bit more controlled, and the victims more likely to realise they can do something.
 
Nik_Endeavour said:
Nobody crushed anyone opinions it was an example of how an un proven allegation being manipulated and sold to the masses as truth without a shred of evidence can lead to some catastrophic outcomes.
Click to expand...

Without a shred of evidence? Eye-witness statements aren't evidence now?

Nik_Endeavour said:
Nobody ridiculed anyone, and you are using sophisms to drive what you take as truth based on tabloid and a documentary. I like to take my evidence form qualified professionals (Police, CPS and Judges)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, our whole legal system is riddled with corrupt Police, Lawyers and Civil Servants (including Judges). Not to mention the grubby doings of the Secret Services and Freemasons.

Why do you think important people can molest children in care homes with impunity? The people who try to do something about it come to sticky ends, like Colin Wallace and the Kincora Boys Home scandal.

Getting back OT to last night's documentary, I was disappointed that they didn't mention the Jersey Care Home investigation. Savile was a visitor there for years.
 
Buster'stheboy said:
Without a shred of evidence? Eye-witness statements aren't evidence now?



Unfortunately, our whole legal system is riddled with corrupt Police, Lawyers and Civil Servants (including Judges). Not to mention the grubby doings of the Secret Services and Freemasons.

Why do you think important people can molest children in care homes with impunity? The people who try to do something about it come to sticky ends, like Colin Wallace and the Kincora Boys Home scandal.

Getting back OT to last night's documentary, I was disappointed that they didn't mention the Jersey Care Home investigation. Savile was a visitor there for years.
Click to expand...

Sadly I think it would not matter had they mentioned Haut de la Garenne or the FACT that Saville is already under investigation after allegations were made in that Police Investigation which are still being investigated. This takes second place now to those on here who feel that death is the end of it. These selfish kids raking things up for a dead bloke are spoiling their lunch.
 
Buster'stheboy said:
Unfortunately, our whole legal system is riddled with corrupt Police, Lawyers and Civil Servants (including Judges). Not to mention the grubby doings of the Secret Services and Freemasons.
Click to expand...

It's not like journalists have the best reputation either right now either :D
 
MercFanUk said:
I mean in this Jimmy situation. But I believe that in any case like this, turning a blind eye is as much aiding and abetting the abuser. There may well be people who the abused never see who help arrange things also, or even cover things up and help provide alibis etc. Of course there may be no one else at all, but it deserves to be examined to make sure in such serious circumstances. Not everything is always as black and white as it might first look.

It can also help to find new ways of protecting those who may become victims in the future by discovering just what made it so easy for the abuser (if there indeed was one of course), and lessons learned can be applied to other investigations of similar matters.
Click to expand...

At the family/friend/babysitter abuser level it is invariably parents turning a blind eye for a myriad of different reasons. How do you bring to book a dead mother who failed to challenge her dead father for the abuse of her daughter? Dead end I'd say.

At the institutional level it is institutes paranoid about their reputation perpetrating cover ups.
A teacher caught abusing given perfect references allowing them to move on to another school and start abuse afresh and allowing the school they are departing to avoid any scandal. All presentation. Beauty is skin deep but ugly is to the bone. That's Britain's recent history.
At the institutional level all and any participation on any level needs to be dealt with by imprisonment. Those participating and facilitating are probably worse that the abusers as those prepared to cover up are acting truer to their own volition than the abuser. Remove them and you remove the get-out-of-jail-free card for the abuser.
 
Last edited:
MercFanUk said:
My view is this; until there is a solid answer by Police, then I'm just going to assume he's innocent, and my opinion of him will be as it was, a great entertainer.
Click to expand...

Whatever else he did or didn't do I don't think with even the widest possible interpretation of the word 'entertainer' Jimmy Savile could be considered one of the greats.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top Bottom