Oh no, this could be a problem...

[DavidL]

I hope this isn't true but I feel it probably is. I have just read, ok courtesy of Mr Clarkson, that the cls63 does not have a true torque converter auto as my e55 does but rather one of these new fangled automated manual malarkies.
He then goes on to describe the one single thing that will stop me ever buying a car with a dsg/smg box again. This feature being the really annoying, and at times downright dangerous, feature where by from stand still the car takes a second or so to realise you are actually wanting to move away at some pace into a gap in the traffic. Said second being just enough to miss the gap in the traffic.
Its bad enough in a 180bhp skoda when you frantically realise your car isn't performing its primary function, ie moving, so your reaction is to press a little harder on the throttle. Maybe you hadn't before as it wasn't moving. And then all hell breaks loose, the wheels spin as you have clearly dialled in way to much throttle and the car that was a sensible distance away now isn't and is quite cross you have just pulled out in front of them
I dread to think of the consequences of doing this in a 550bhp car. I can't help to think it would involve the wall of the house opposite the side road.
So please say it isn't so.
I know the e55 kept the 5 sp box as the 7 couldn't deal with the torque but the NA e63 have a 7 sp auto box.
So it seems post about 09 they all have the speedshift box. Bugger.
Where's the audi brochure, are they any better?

 

[Red C220]

RS6's, RS7's & S8's have ZF Torque converter boxes. An RS7 would be straight comparison to a CLS63

Our S6 has a twin clutch (S-Tronic) which behaves in the way you describe occasionally when in Comfort or Auto modes. In Dynamic or Manual it's ready to go instantly, but then conversely not as smooth in stop start traffic.

 

[st13phil]

The AMG Speedshift 'box is actually an auto, but with a wet clutch in lieu of a torque converter. It doesn't suffer any take off lag.

 

[flowrider]

Just learn the characteristics of the car, any car, and drive accordingly.

 

[mat8n]

As above.
I can't accelerate behind a car as I'd just plow into the back of it!
In the SL I have to judge the gap, pull out, then accelerate.
If I did it the way I do it in other cars I'd hit the car in front.

 

[DavidL]

Just learn the characteristics of the car, any car, and drive accordingly.

I was expecting this reply but sorry I'm not buying it, its a typical internet retort. Something that is supposedly a progression in box design can't have fundamental flaws and these do. I've driven enough cars with different boxes to know what works.
I expect more than that but if people find it acceptable (and judging by the volumes sold they do) then that's fine but I'll spend my money as I choose. It would ruin the ownership for me.

 

[DavidL]

As above.
I can't accelerate behind a car as I'd just plow into the back of it!
In the SL I have to judge the gap, pull out, then accelerate.
If I did it the way I do it in other cars I'd hit the car in front.

And yet the e55 works as it should. Sorry but not for me.

 

[AMGeed]

And yet the e55 works as it should. Sorry but not for me.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The E55 is annoyingly slow to react to manual gearchanges.

If you aren't prepared to learn and adjust to the characteristics of the CLS63 gearbox as suggested above, indeed its not the car for you.

 

[st13phil]

I've driven enough cars with different boxes to know what works.

But have you driven an AMG with the MCT Speedshift ‘box?

I’m fortunate in that I can directly compare the driving experience of an MCT Speedshift transmission in my Biturbo E63 and a torque converter ‘box in my wife’s SLK55. Both will pull away from a standstill without any hesitation. The big difference is that the turbo engine isn’t as immediate off idle as the NA engine due to the turbos having to spool up - but that’s nothing to do with the transmission. The more significant difference is that the MCT Speedshift in the E63 is much more responsive, with faster shifts and much less lag in response to the paddles.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DavidL]

I haven't tried one of these boxes which indeed I should but when the first sentence in a review covers exactly my pet hate in this type of box it doesn't fill me with confidence. But yes in due course I'll give it a go.
The e55 box isn't perfect by any means but doesn't try to kill me eiter. Others will undoubtedly find different characteristics equally annoying.
I'd still argue that I shouldn't have to be driving around the box - its rather more than "learning to adjust to the characteristics of the CLS63(or dsg) gearbox", forgive the editing. I drive around foibles on my old cars. I can live with this, they are old and whilst working properly aren't exactly cutting edge technology. This type of box is supposed to be just that, the best we have, but to me it is rather lacking.
Yes I'll have a go and make my own decision, as we all do.

 

[st13phil]

Yes I'll have a go and make my own decision, as we all do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bluegnomes]

I think with DSG/PDK it depends on the application and the age of the tech. Newer ones I’ve tried/have currently have no problem with hesitation although you do hear some tales of woeful DSG/PKD in some cars. Having said that I haven’t heard of problems with AMG’s getting off the line!

 

[Jim W]

I really liked the 7 speed MCT in my 2011 E63.... I am not so impressed with the 9 speed auto in my new 2017 E63s, especially in Comfort mode when you accelerate then get off the gas it lingers in 3rd gear and seems reluctant to change up. It's great in Sport mode though!

 

[RickMM]

Having driven the 9 speed in a C43, I can't help feeling that it's a bit unnecessary (too many ratios?) and certainly prefer the MCT in the C63.

 

[daveenty]

I quite like the 9 speed box, I find it a lot more relaxing than the 7 speed I had in the W212, even before it got modified.

I only use C mode to warm the engine up though, all other times it's in either S or my own custom mode which I think is a nice little touch.

Going back to the OP, there was certainly no hesitation on mine when I had it, instant response both from the lights and on up or down shifts.

 

[st13phil]

I am not so impressed with the 9 speed auto in my new 2017 E63s, especially in Comfort mode when you accelerate then get off the gas it lingers in 3rd gear and seems reluctant to change up.

One of the more recent software updates on my 2015 W212 E63's MCT box changed the behaviour to be like that too. It doesn't happen if you accelerate and then feather the throttle as you reach your target speed, only if you're accelerating with a degree of enthusiasm and then lift off quickly.

I guess the programming presumption is that if you're accelerating reasonably hard and suddenly lift off it's because your progress has been interrupted by a hazard, and once that clears then you're likely to get on the throttle again. By holding the lower gear, the car is better prepared for the second application of the throttle rather than having to downshift first.

 

[Jim W]

I quite like the 9 speed box, I find it a lot more relaxing than the 7 speed I had in the W212, even before it got modified.

I only use C mode to warm the engine up though, all other times it's in either S or my own custom mode which I think is a nice little touch.

I do the same. I tend to just use C mode to warm the motor, then select my individual mode which consists of Sport mode with Comfort suspension.... Just right!

 

[Bluegnomes]

I agree that 9 speed is pretty OTT but in Sport/Sport+ you only use the first 6-7 most of the time (and it’s pretty responsive) and my 290mile M-way trip today was at 35.1mpg since I was cruising at ~1800rpm in 9th most of the time. Not a bad combination.

 

[R1NGA]

DavidL - as has been said above, the 7-speed MCT is to all intents and purposes the same as a Torque Converter Auto, but without the draw backs. In place of the torque-converter sits a multiplate clutch-pack which can have its locking characteristics changed depending on the setting of the gearbox/throttle mapping between Comfort, Sport and Sport+. In Comfort it cruises gently and is as relaxed as you would expect from a full torque-converter box, in Sport it speeds changes up a bit and in Sport+ it changes as quickly as a car of this type might reasonably expect when demanding full power and cracks through manual changes with the paddles very well indeed. Sure it's never going to be as quick as a DCT, but 90% of the time most AMG's are used on crowded roads, where in my opinion the MCT box works better than a DCT in many situations.

What it is NOT is an Automated Manual Transmission (AMT), of the type fitter to early BMW's called SMG, some Alfa's under the guise of Selecta or some less than well calibrated Maserati's. AMTs can be made to work well, but typically only in more focussed, lighter sports machinery such as the Ferrari's that started the craze in the first place. Drive an MCT-equipped AMG and I am sure you'll think it pretty damned good...

 

[DavidL]

Thanks Ringa. My direct experience is the VAG dsg box which is an AMT. Hopefully the MCT is better.
This is the review of the CLS63 that worried me:
The Clarkson review: Mercedes CLS 63 AMG Shooting Brake (2013)

"Problems? Yes. The traditional automatic gearbox with its torque converter has been replaced by a multi-clutch system. Doubtless this is very good news for Johnny Polar Bear, but, like all modern flappy-paddle solutions, it is annoying.

In Comfort mode, things are just about acceptable, but if you switch the system to Sport, it becomes dimwitted. Especially around town, where it has a habit of responding to requests for more speed exactly half a second after the gap you were aiming for has disappeared."

Now on rereading that doesn't specifically issues mention from standstill which is my bugbear but rather any request for power. I'm not sure if that makes me happier or not!
Anyway I'm glad plenty have responded positively and its certainly sufficient for me to organise a test drive.
Thanks all.