really getting pxxxd of with drivers on M25

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kalvin928

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Watford.UK
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S205 C63s , Lotus Carlton replica, CLK 200 Kompressor
What is the point in keep putting wider lanes in on the M25 if everyone wants to sit in 2nd and 3rd lanes? went out yesterday to Leytonstone and on way back just after roadwork's, bloody nightmare.... so my age flashed back to when I was 20 and I just cut through in 1st and 2nd lanes and presto roads all clear.... I know undertaking isn't legal but its becoming more and more common in my driving habits on the 4 lane sections east and west watford J19-21a...... it makes its sooo much fun when in the Eclass........ I think my 8 year old wh was with me must have been wondering when he saw my manic demented grin!!!!
 
Be careful, with the new laws you'll get done along with the middle lane hoggers.
 
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:D
 
Be careful, with the new laws you'll get done along with the middle lane hoggers.

If you maintain the speed within the legal limits, you wouldn't get done for it.

Undertaking, cutting in front of the lane hogger, then going back in lane 1, only to shoot into lane three 4 seconds later, that may be seen as dangerous driving :)
 
You'll come across me pootling along at 65MPH in inside lane.
 
I find the modern 'managed motorway' sections seem to suffer from this more than old-school tarmac warfare motorways.

I don't know what it is but the section of the m25 between gatwick and heathrow where they have a lot of variable speed cameras and have had for a long time seems to end up with no lane discipline at all.

Once in the variable speed area you get random speed / random lane lemmings. I quite frequently see lane 1 free for miles and reasonably often use it to make some progress at or around the speed limit.

It's quite easy to tell by sight from the equipment on the gantries where the cameras are. It's very clear that some drivers know exactly what they are doing and others don't. Makes for some quite dangerous looking interactions where some people in the outer lanes brake sharply for a gantry with no camera on it whilst those on inside lanes sail on by up the inside. I guess this contributes to the lane ambiguity.

I would quite like to be able to just get on with driving properly, i.e. reside in lane 1 then come out to pass when necessary. Very few other drivers seem to want to do that though so it's all a mess.
 
I thought the m25 variable limits areas actively encouraged drivers to stay in lane, in contravention of normal practise? Also, I am afraid I fail to see why it would be acceptable to make progress up to the NSL in those areas simply because there is no camera over that particular gantry. If the speed limit signs are in the roundels above the lanes, my understanding is that they are mandatory, regardless of the presence of enforcement equipment.
 
Hi PXW,
I should have said, this is when the signs are blank and there is no imposed modification to national speed limit.

By making progress, I don't necessarily mean exceeding the speed limit excessively. There seem to be plenty of people prepared to sit in lane 3 doing 62-65 in these sections of motorway leaving a pair of lanes free on one side and another on the other. If I am in lane 1 and there's a lane of free air between us, I won't always pull right out into lane 4 to go round the hogger.

I have observed lurching between gantries as folk slam all on to anticipate the cameras, I'm not so keen on doing that myself tending to pick a speed (and stick at it) at which I think I'll not be targeted, approximately 10% above limit (by satnav speed rather than speedo). If someone along side me or just in front does the camera shy brake stamp, I'm not going to follow suit to avoid undertaking them - but watching carefully to see what they might do incase they change lane.
 
Most 4 lane sections of motorway suffer the same middle lane hogging mentality as those with 3 lanes. Now lanes 2 and 3 are dominated by varying degrees of obliviousness.

More to the point, I now regularly see people make a statement by sweeping from lane s 2-4-2 to show their disdain. A statement unlikely to engender a change of habit to those they've passed.
 
Mmm.

So if the construction signs say the road goes to one lane in 800 yards ( or "miles" as in the quote), one should immediately move into the one lane, rather than use both lanes for the next 800 yards?

Seems daft to me, as it increases the length of the one lane section by 800 yards.

IMHO what should happen is that both lanes should be used for as long as possible, then vehicles merge in turn. None of this "let you in" malarkey, as if the guy already in the lane owns it.

Sorry, rant over.
 
I fully agree, a few more merge in turn signs might improve driving habits, or is that wishful thinking. Zipping signs are common in the USA. I wonder why it is that so many see driving as some form of gladiatorial combat where winning at any cost is required.
 
I don't dispute how annoying middle lane hogs are, but I can't condone any form of high speed undertaking. There has been a massive increase in this in last few years, but not of middle lane driving which has always been bad. Undertaking at high speed (by that I don't mean the general sticky flow of traffic that means you underpass someone but the intentional 60-70mph+ chicane driving around cars) - it's very dangerous, and those who practice that should be fined very heavily as ultimately they WILL kill others.
 
I hate middle lane hoggers myself, so so annoyingSometimes doing 55mph on 1st lane will overtake middle slowers
I hope they will be picked up and fine as promised by new laws
Simple, when road is clear keep your **** to the left !!!!!
 
Mmm.

So if the construction signs say the road goes to one lane in 800 yards ( or "miles" as in the quote), one should immediately move into the one lane, rather than use both lanes for the next 800 yards?

Seems daft to me, as it increases the length of the one lane section by 800 yards.

IMHO what should happen is that both lanes should be used for as long as possible, then vehicles merge in turn. None of this "let you in" malarkey, as if the guy already in the lane owns it.

Sorry, rant over.

But you can see if you can filter in from 400 yards away if not filter in as soon as needed! 1 lane moving steady at 50MPH is better than a bottleneck where no one can move all because someone wanted to steal an extra place.

Tony.
 
But you can see if you can filter in from 400 yards away if not filter in as soon as needed! 1 lane moving steady at 50MPH is better than a bottleneck where no one can move all because someone wanted to steal an extra place.

Tony.
But two lanes moving at 50mph gets twice as much traffic closer to the lane restriction. Then merging or zipping gets everyone into the available lane nicely without much need to change speed (assuming the restricted lane has a 50mph limit). If this wasn't the most efficient approach then there would be no need for multi-lane roads anywhere.
 
But two lanes moving at 50mph gets twice as much traffic closer to the lane restriction. Then merging or zipping gets everyone into the available lane nicely without much need to change speed (assuming the restricted lane has a 50mph limit). If this wasn't the most efficient approach then there would be no need for multi-lane roads anywhere.

The venturi effect means that unless the traffic speeds up at the point they merge inevitably both lanes of traffic will slow down...think about it.
 
But two lanes moving at 50mph gets twice as much traffic closer to the lane restriction. Then merging or zipping gets everyone into the available lane nicely without much need to change speed (assuming the restricted lane has a 50mph limit). If this wasn't the most efficient approach then there would be no need for multi-lane roads anywhere.

Maybe the road users are a different breed where you are based but alas in my neck of the woods there are usually people wanting to be treated more equally than others so imo does not work that way!

Tony.
 
Merge in turn would be lovely but I fear I will win the lottery before that ever happens.
 
I agree that fully satisfactory merging in turn requires cooperation from everyone, something we're unlikely to ever achieve. But at least we should be aiming towards something like it.

But I don't agree with Renault on the Venturi effect coming into play. Firstly the Venturi effect is the phenomenon that occurs when a fluid that is flowing through a pipe is forced through a narrow section, resulting in a pressure decrease and a velocity increase. So not a velocity decrease as suggested. Unfortunately this won't happen either because traffic flow in these situations can never accurately mimic a fluid because of even minor variations in the molecules (vehicles).

BUT, both lanes of traffic WILL have to slow down for effective zipping and this can't be a bad thing. Of course you'll get the aggressive outer lane driver wanting to charge down his lane and barge in, but even most of those will eventually learn that this is a futile and time-wasting process AS LONG AS THE VEHICLES IN THE INNER LANE ALLOW MERGING. They'll carry on with their stupid antics for as long as the "I queued so I'm not letting you in" brigade remain stubborn. As with everything else on the road, cooperation and less pig-headiness makes life a whole lot easier for everyone.
 
The simple solution would be to make both lanes move to the centre, that way neither has priority.

Put a line of cones down between the lanes, then taper both lanes in.
 

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