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Minor Aircon Problem

E55BOF

Hardcore MB Enthusiast
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Mar 11, 2013
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11,415
Location
South Bucks
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ML63, E350 Cabrio
Good morning all. The car is a 2012 E63, and the aircon has stopped working. It seems likely that it is a faulty pressure switch (a known weak point), and that I can change myself. However...

I found a thread on one of the US forums, posted by someone who seemed to know what he was talking about, which stated that in changing the switch no refrigerant would be lost. That must be wrong, surely?
 
Can't see how you could change the pressure switch without loss of all the gas, which would not be good for the environment. When was the aircon last serviced ? They tend to loose 10-15% of the gas per year, so if it's not been done for a year or two the gas could be low and then the system would protect the compressor by shutting the system down.
 
Almost all refrigerant pressure sensors are mounted on a schrader-style valve so you SHOULDN’T lose any significant amount of refrigerant. There is usually a little puff of it when removing, just as when you check your tyre pressures.
However, sometimes the valve sticks, so approach with caution.
Always best to have it de-gassed and re-gassed if possible.
 
I did my aircon service last weekend. The gas was low and it had shut the system down, re-gas and lube and all is well again. Looked back in the service file and it was just over two years since it was last done. Looks like I am getting lazy in my retirement.
 
Anybody know exactly where the little blighter is located in the engine compartment of a 212? It's a known fault item on the 212, and I'm inclined to change it as a precaution; if that doesn't resolve the problem, I'll look further afield (an aircon specialist).
 
It’s usually on almost all mercs, located under the radiators.
 
100% you will loose the refrigerant, been there done it and nearly had to replace ones underpants!

It's located under the plastic covering under the bumper.
 
Most modern cars have valves that allow safe removal of pressure switch without refrigerant loss. That said, why don't you put gauges on it and see what the pressure is? You may be low of freon which is tripping the pressure switch.
 
The refrigerant pressure and temperature sensors are combined in one switch unit, I believe, which is why it has three terminals rather than two.

I need it done very quickly if possible, without booking it in to a car aircon specialist. If it doesn't sort the problem, so be it.
 
I spoke to Terry Gates. The system does have to be evacuated to change the switch, but that's not the problem anyway; if it was, the engine cooling fan would be running at full speed. B****r!
 
I love the optimism of your thread OP "Minor Aircon Problem" it could also be a catastrophic destructive mechanical failure of pump or many other bits that make up the air conditioning system including needing all of the pipes replacing , the cost of which would be eye watering.:eek:

Having said that it probably just needs a vacuum/dry/re-gas & pressure/leak test ! :) Good luck.
 
I love the pessimism of your post, but it was no such thing. It just needed regassing.

No fault codes recorded, so as I have an old charging hose with pressure gauge from a top-up can, I connected that up to the LP port. No pressure reading, but the feeble puff from the open end was, I thought, a clue.

From empty, it holds 590 gm of refrigerant. Off to Halfords for a recharge cylinder (they're cheaper on eBay for exactly the same thing, but I haven't time to wait - long trip tomorrow). The aircon light would stay on after about 75 gm went in, so I've put 330 gm in and it blows cold; job done pro tem.

I don't suppose anyone knows from experience roughly how much refrigerant is left when it first stops cooling, do they? Not really vital information, though; so long as it lasts a week, the immediate problem is solved. I'll have it diagnosed by a pro with the proper kit in due course, and if anything needs replacing, get it done then.
 
Well at least you know it has a leak somewhere. The only question is where?

I think I'd be tempted to carry the recharge cylinder and hose with me on the journey tomorrow as insurance!
 
If you need the services of a air con specilist I can recomend these guys in Slough Car Air Conditioning Service – Slough | Mark 4
Very friendly blokes, know there stuff very well.
In the past Ive used the local garage with the machine they hook up and leave for an hour to do its thing. Very basic and if theres a fault they cant help. Ive also used a mobile guy who also only wanted to do regassing as he didnt want to have to "crawl under" cars outside, but he could advice of possible faults.
These guys do it all, and are happy to explain to you whats going on.
 
I don't suppose anyone knows from experience roughly how much refrigerant is left when it first stops cooling, do they? Not really vital information, though; so long as it lasts a week, the immediate problem is solved. I'll have it diagnosed by a pro with the proper kit in due course, and if anything needs replacing, get it done then.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean but I'll try to explain how it works so that you can better understand the system and come to your own conclusion. If you know this already, then please ignore this post.

Refrigerant is a gas that is stored in its liquid form in the A/C system as it's under pressure. If the system has a leak, you will lose gas. How much is dependent on the leak.

Some leaks will evacuate the system to empty, others will only appear above a certain pressure.

The (very) basic function of the a/c system is that there is a compressor that pumps freon (the refrigerant) around in a circular motion. On on side there is an evaporator that sits under your dash with a blower fan behind it. The other side has a condenser at the very front of your car.

As the freon circulates, it hits the evaporator in its liquid state. The fan blowing air though it will turn hot air into cold air that comes out of the vents.
The same heat transfer heats the liquid freon to a gas state. This hot gas will be cycled through the condenser to cool it down. So on and so forth.

It's a sealed system and the freon will never wear out. The only thing that can happen is that the system leaks. If this happens, you can 'top up' the system by adding freon to bring the system to approximately the right pressure. You'll know how much you added by weighing the jug of gas before and after the charge.

The correct way, as your a/c tech suggested is to evacuate all the freon using a recovery machine that sucks the gas into a container and then charge the system with the correct amount by weight. There is usually a red sticker under the hood that tells you exactly how much freon the system should have.

If your system is completely empty, the system will need to be evacuated (where a vacuum is applied) in order to suck all the moister out, otherwise it will never function correctly and the moisture will cause internals to rust.

R134a is a very efficient at cooling. In the UK, I would expect that it would function very well under normal ambient temps even if it had half the charge.

My only tip is that you should always run your ac and avoid using the EC mode. The freon also carries the oil around the system and without the circulation, seals might dry up resulting in a leak that would not normally be there.

As far as detecting leaks, there are various methods to figure this out including sniffers that can detect gas, UV dye that can be added to the system or good old soapy water which you can spray and watch for bubbles. A good A/C tech will be able to track it down and as long as it's not behind the dash, it can be fixed at relative low cost.
 
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Thank you gentlemen.

I always go to Vanchilla near Cookham, right next to a Copas farm. I first found him in Maidenhead when I had the W210 in 2013; he's still very good.

I always leave the aircon switched on all year round. I have a fair idea of how the system works. I put 330 gm of refrigerant in, which is just over 60% of the recommended full charge, and I doubt it is overfilled, but I'd like to be nearer to certain if possible.

The question is very simple; has anyone with a W212 had their aircon show the fault indication (three flashes when trying to switch the system on) because of low pressure, then taken it to be recharged, and if so, can they recall how much refrigerant was recovered when the system was evacuated prior to refilling?

There's no mention anywhere in the E63's service history - all main dealer - of the air conditioning, so it may be that it has never needed attention previously, and just that the normal leakage of gas with time reached the point where it ceased to function. On my wife's Mazda MX-3, I used to top the aircon up every Spring for the five years she had the car, and it never failed to do the trick. I'll see how it goes...
 
Did you charge 330 grams from a vacuum or topped up? Pressure switch could be a low or high pressure. If your system was relatively full beforehand, you may have over charged it and as a result , tripping a high pressure switch. You could also have a leak.
You really need to get a set of gauges or see if a good scanner can read the system pressure. On the W210, you can read the pressures from the LCD climate control panel in the car. No idea about the W212
 
Topped up. The system shut down (three flashes of the red light) and after about 75 gm had gone in, it started working again. I don't think I've overfilled it.

The aircon OBD on the W210 was excellent, but it wasn't carried over to the W211, let alone the W212.
 
Topped up. The system shut down (three flashes of the red light) and after about 75 gm had gone in, it started working again. I don't think I've overfilled it.

The aircon OBD on the W210 was excellent, but it wasn't carried over to the W211, let alone the W212.


You need to put some gauges on it. What you're doing is like trying to torque head bolts after changing a head gasket without using a torque wrench.
 

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