Sprinter engine swop

[Chris001]

Hi all, I’m new on here but in need of some advice.
I’ve got a 2013 sprinter running a 651 engine, it’s currently on engine number 4 and that one has gone bang. I wondered if anyone has put an older 646 engine in a new sprinter and what it takes to do it?
All help and advice would be very much appreciated.
Thanks Chris

 

[m80]

You would need to transplant the ECU also, and utilise the 646 engine loom. Doable I'm sure, but you would need to compare drawings from each to see how they communicate with the TCU and SAM.

Then the issue is compliance for road tax and insurance.

Of interest, is the Sprinter just too much for the 651 engine? While I prefer the 646 for it's more simple and robust design, why do you think it is more capable than the 651?

 

[Chris001]

Thanks for the reply,
So it is doable then. Just the electric side of it where the problem would be.?

I think the 651 engine is rubbish to be fair, I have had 4 engines in my van and now it needs a 5th I also own a 2007 Vito, that runs a 646 engine and I have no trouble with that at all, seems to be bullet proof.

Would I be better getting a complete van and transferring everything over do you think?

 

[m80]

Personally I would prefer the engine out of a 2009 211 E Class.
Imo everything made for the 211 is of far higher quality than the 639.

No that I have concern but i don't see how it would be legal seeing as you are fitting a non DPF engine (presumably that would be the choice) into a vehicle registered as DPF (Euro 5).

In truth given the free choice I could be tempted to do the same on my Viano.
In your case wouldn't it be easier to replace the Sprinter with one fitted with the 642 V6 engine? I'm assuming they came as such as I have no experience with the Sprinter.
Although the 642 isn't bullet proof having its own inherent issues, it would provide the extra torque that as the is 651 lacking could be your problems??

 

[Bellow]

it’s currently on engine number 4 and that one has gone bang.

Why do they keep going bang?

 

[Chris001]

Why do they keep going bang?

I’m not sure the bottom ends on them have gone, so knocking badly.

 

[Chris001]

Personally I would prefer the engine out of a 2009 211 E Class.
Imo everything made for the 211 is of far higher quality than the 639.

No that I have concern but i don't see how it would be legal seeing as you are fitting a non DPF engine (presumably that would be the choice) into a vehicle registered as DPF (Euro 5).

In truth given the free choice I could be tempted to do the same on my Viano.
In your case wouldn't it be easier to replace the Sprinter with one fitted with the 642 V6 engine? I'm assuming they came as such as I have no experience with the Sprinter.
Although the 642 isn't bullet proof having its own inherent issues, it would provide the extra torque that as the is 651 lacking could be your problems??

 

[Chris001]

Personally I would prefer the engine out of a 2009 211 E Class.
Imo everything made for the 211 is of far higher quality than the 639.

No that I have concern but i don't see how it would be legal seeing as you are fitting a non DPF engine (presumably that would be the choice) into a vehicle registered as DPF (Euro 5).

In truth given the free choice I could be tempted to do the same on my Viano.
In your case wouldn't it be easier to replace the Sprinter with one fitted with the 642 V6 engine? I'm assuming they came as such as I have no experience with the Sprinter.
Although the 642 isn't bullet proof having its own inherent issues, it would provide the extra torque that as the is 651 lacking could be your problems??

I would just put my Dpf on with the sensors and wiring but tuck them in to the loom.

I want to go for an easy option that would fit, I was hoping that the 646 engine might work a little easier then getting a v6 engine.

Do you know how much would need to be changed to get a 646 running in my van.?

 

[m80]

Know, no. But to guess.
Engine with ancillaries.
Engine loom.
ECU.
Aside from the DPF the exhaust may be tuned differently, but I wouldn't expect a significant difference.

Others may say more but to my mind that is about it.

 

[Chris001]

Know, no. But to guess.
Engine with ancillaries.
Engine loom.
ECU.
Aside from the DPF the exhaust may be tuned differently, but I wouldn't expect a significant difference.

Others may say more but to my mind that is about it.

Do you think I would have to change the loom from the ecu to the dash as well, also the clocks and keys? I’m not overly bothered about the exhaust I have a custom exhaust company that will sort that out for me.

 

[Bellow]

I’m not sure the bottom ends on them have gone, so knocking badly.

When you replace engines, are you cleaning out/replacing the oil cooler and lines?

 

[Chris001]

When you replace engines, are you cleaning out/replacing the oil cooler and lines?

I just got engines that were complete.
I have bought a bottom end this time that’s complete just heads been removed due to head gasket gone. But was thinking I would rather put the older engine in.

 

[Bellow]

I just got engines that were complete.

But you hooked them up to the existing chassis systems, (water) radiator, oil cooler, etc. If there is swarf in an oil cooler from a previous failure it will enter the new engine and create the same problem. Did you or did you not flush out the cooler after each engine failure?

I have bought a bottom end this time that’s complete just heads been removed due to head gasket gone. But was thinking I would rather put the older engine in.

Personally I wouldn't go near a transplant that requires different ECUs. Getting them to talk to each other is witchcraft for me - and those who know how are the most miserable when it comes to helping others.

 

[AntXXG]

Whatever your replacement engine is I'd recommend using STP oil treatment if you're knocking the bottom ends out..90% of bearing wear happens in the first 2 seconds of running...we ran 3 laps on our race engine flat out with no oil pressure sump punctured by piece of 1 inch steel tube... took engine apart expecting carnage.. and found no damage to bearings whatsoever!!

 

[Chris001]

But you hooked them up to the existing chassis systems, (water) radiator, oil cooler, etc. If there is swarf in an oil cooler from a previous failure it will enter the new engine and create the same problem. Did you or did you not flush out the cooler after each engine failure?

Personally I wouldn't go near a transplant that requires different ECUs. Getting them to talk to each other is witchcraft for me - and those who know how are the most miserable when it comes to helping others.

The engines had their own oil coolers already on them so no need to charge them to mine or even change them, the cooling system was drained each time as the front end was removed. Not sure how swarf front an oil component can get in to the cooling system without oil mixing with the coolant.

 

[Chris001]

Whatever your replacement engine is I'd recommend using STP oil treatment if you're knocking the bottom ends out..90% of bearing wear happens in the first 2 seconds of running...we ran 3 laps on our race engine flat out with no oil pressure sump punctured by piece of 1 inch steel tube... took engine apart expecting carnage.. and found no damage to bearings whatsoever!!

Thanks I’ll stick some in the next engine.

 

[Bellow]

The engines had their own oil coolers already on them so no need to charge them to mine or even change them, the cooling system was drained each time as the front end was removed.

I wasn't sure is it was a saddle cooler or the sardine type. The latter it seems so not a residual swarf issue.

Not sure how swarf front an oil component can get in to the cooling system without oil mixing with the coolant.

It can't - I was only using the cooling system as an example of an external system that the engine communicates with.

There has to be an underlying problem though. Engines don't repeatedly fail without reason.

 

[m80]

As you intend to drop the bottom out you will get the chance to see scoring of the shells. Did you examine the previous failed engines?
What oil are you using?