W164 as an off road vehicle.

[V12cat]

I've presently got a fairly tired Mitsubishi Pajero which is used off road pretty much every day on wet rutted fields and rough broken ground. I was wondering how a W164 would cope with this sort of usage with appropriate tyres? I have one as a car (ML420) and really like it. A local independent MB specialist warned against a W163, which was my first thought mainly for road tax reasons. I realise early W164's also come into the lower tax bracket, hence my question.
The Pajero's biggest negative (apart from it's age) is the lack of space inside. The W164 has a lot more room with the seats folded. Also they tow really well.
Pickups are no use to me. Poor security, crap off road and cumbersome.

 

[91dm]

I have all terrain tyres on my W163 ML270 and it is very good in wet fields / farm tracks, has low range as well which is useful. Not sure how a W164 compares but I would say similar if not better with newer traction control. The older 163 still has a ladder chassis.

 

[moakesr]

If you can find one with the off-road pack, then go for it, but in standard trim without low range and diff lock, then I would advise against it.

 

[V12cat]

If you can find one with the off-road pack, then go for it, but in standard trim without low range and diff lock, then I would advise against it.

I'm not bothered about low range and I actually rarely lock the centre diff on the Pajero. TBH I'm more concerned about it's durability in those conditions. Ball joints etc and general ability to handle rough treatment. Something the Pajero is VERY good at. Epically better than the many Landrovers we've had.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I am rather partial towards the W164 as a road car, however I’m not sure that they would make a great off-road car - whilst it has some off-road capability is was designed first and foremost as a more refined road car with improved on-road dynamics.

If wishing to regularly take the car off-road for “rough treatment” then I would be strongly considering something more like what you have today, like a Shogun, Landcruiser or Patrol, assuming that a Suzuki would be too small.

 

[Pontoneer]

I know the costs are vastly different , and older ones have a reputation for rusting badly , but if you want a proper M-B off-roader , there really is nothing to touch the G-Wagen . Well , apart from a Unimog .

I have no idea of your budget , but from a very quick look on eBay , this is the cheapest one currently being offered - and the seller can't even spell the name correctly !

The wheels currently on it are entirely unsuitable for off road use , but no doubt would sell for more than a set of proper wheels and tyres would cost .

Pardon our interruption...

 

[V12cat]

I know the costs are vastly different , and older ones have a reputation for rusting badly , but if you want a proper M-B off-roader , there really is nothing to touch the G-Wagen . Well , apart from a Unimog .

I have no idea of your budget , but from a very quick look on eBay , this is the cheapest one currently being offered - and the seller can't even spell the name correctly !

The wheels currently on it are entirely unsuitable for off road use , but no doubt would sell for more than a set of proper wheels and tyres would cost .

Pardon our interruption...

I have plenty of stuff way more capable than a Unimog, but not really practical as a get around vehicle!!
My budget is ML level so unfortunately the G-Wagen is a bit out of reach!
TBF there are plenty of ML's about that I could just try, with very little to loose if I wrecked it. I don't however want to wreck my nice black ML420.....

 

[V12cat]

[....]
If wishing to regularly take the car off-road for “rough treatment” then I would be strongly considering something more like what you have today, like a Shogun, Landcruiser or Patrol, assuming that a Suzuki would be too small.

Not really a fan of the newer Shoguns etc. I could moderate it's usage a little to accommodate the ML's shortcomings. Just don't want a constant stream of ball joint and steering issues.
Today's overly moist spot found while pulling a lay flat pipe up a new batter. Actually the first time I've had it properly stuck. Luckily my best extraction machine was at hand.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Alex went at it a bit tongue in cheek and is not an off road specialist , he made a few videos with this car.

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[slade1]

Get a Land cruiser, 10,000 terrorists can't be wrong.
Have used Toyota and Nissan in Africa and Middle East and they always work.

 

[Pontoneer]

Alex went at it a bit tongue in cheek and is not an off road specialist , he made a few videos with this car.

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Haven't watched the video , but early MLs were shown in early promotional videos to be at risk of being eaten by T-Rex , while evidence from various police forces has shown that BMW 4x4s are apt to suffer catastrophic engine failure .

The best options for off road capability seem to remain with Land Rover Series and Defender models ( questionable reliability ) or G-Wagen ( rust afflicting early variants and unbelievable cost for a utility vehicle being an obstacle for later vehicles , which also seem to come with improbably excessive engine specs - when a 230GE is perfectly adequate for off road use , why does anyone need a 5 litre plus V-8 ? ) . Land rover had long enough to sort out reliability issues and M-B need to look at why they need silly options on what was designed to be a utility vehicle for military buyers and 3rd world countries .

 

[ALFAitalia]

....because their target market now is rich housewives on the school run and wannabe rappers. So as long as the suspension is good enough to not damage the 30 inch alloys as you mount the kerb by the school/cashpoint etc that all the off road ability it needs. A big engined G is about as likely to be used off road as full fat latest spec Range Rover!!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

when a 230GE is perfectly adequate for off road use , why does anyone need a 5 litre plus V-8 ? ) .

Nobody really need a large capacity V8. I suspect most of us drive cars which are beyond what we actually need, whether that’s engine capacity, performance, off-road ability, luxury, number of seats, or even number of cars. Anything beyond the bare minimum is a luxury. I dare say some people might even say that we don’t really need cars.

 

[Blobsta]

I had an ML320 W163 and we just loved it as a family car, bought it for a camping trip when we "realised" the wife's Mini Clubman S and my CLK350 didn't really have the load carrying capacity we needed .

I got the car up to a standard that we were happy with, we used it all the time and then I sold it on. I replaced. my CLK with an S202 C43 and Claire got the Discovery 4 she'd always wanted (I now have a full-fat Range as well as the C43). Don't start, I see you all gearing up for it !

Anyway, I still slightly regret getting rid of the W163 and having done the research on them they seem far more capable off road than most would credit them with. If the W164 has improved drastically over that it should be a very good car. Might have another 163 at some point and just camo-dip it for a bit of fun and use it off road a bit as well as enjoy it for what it is. We'll see...

If the OP does go for the 164, please do post some pics of it being used "properly", I'd love to see that.

 

[roviw1]

I have a 2008 gL420 X164, not used it off road but it does have the full package with diff locks and three air ride heights. Quite a few you tube videos of these to look at .

 

[Pontoneer]

I have plenty of stuff way more capable than a Unimog, but not really practical as a get around vehicle!!
My budget is ML level so unfortunately the G-Wagen is a bit out of reach!
TBF there are plenty of ML's about that I could just try, with very little to loose if I wrecked it. I don't however want to wreck my nice black ML420.....

Just a thought , and I don’t know a lot about them , but might a VW Touareg be another option ? They’ve been around for a while so should be used ones available at any budget . I seem to recall a friend saying that one of the earlier versions has a much higher towing capacity than later ones , if that would matter to you ?

 

[Petrol Pete]

https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/volkswagen-touareg-successfully-tows-a-boeing-747.html#:~:text=A%20Volkswagen%20Touareg%20V10%20TDI%20has%20succeeded%20in,Dunsfold%20Aerodrome%2C%2040%20miles%20south%20west%20of%20London.

Toureg Towing a big thing....

 

[ALFAitalia]

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[91dm]

Not really a fan of the newer Shoguns etc. I could moderate it's usage a little to accommodate the ML's shortcomings. Just don't want a constant stream of ball joint and steering issues.
Today's overly moist spot found while pulling a lay flat pipe up a new batter. Actually the first time I've had it properly stuck. Luckily my best extraction machine was at hand.

View attachment 162832

I have general grabbers on my 163 ML270 and it's very good in those conditions. It has torsion bar on the front and springs in the rear. I haven't had any issues with balljoints etc, it has been very reliable. The only issues have been with the injector seals which is very common.

 

[slade1]

Haven't watched the video , but early MLs were shown in early promotional videos to be at risk of being eaten by T-Rex , while evidence from various police forces has shown that BMW 4x4s are apt to suffer catastrophic engine failure .

The best options for off road capability seem to remain with Land Rover Series and Defender models ( questionable reliability ) or G-Wagen ( rust afflicting early variants and unbelievable cost for a utility vehicle being an obstacle for later vehicles , which also seem to come with improbably excessive engine specs - when a 230GE is perfectly adequate for off road use , why does anyone need a 5 litre plus V-8 ? ) . Land rover had long enough to sort out reliability issues and M-B need to look at why they need silly options on what was designed to be a utility vehicle for military buyers and 3rd world countries .

The last LR I used was a 1996 Defender 110. Surprise surprise it was oil tight and quite reliable considering the conditions.
3 sets of wheel bearings and 3 complete brake overhauls in 75K kilometre and lost count on suspension bushes.
My God it was uncomfortable and water poured in everywhere.