W204 acceleration problems

[katsoulis1980]

Hello all,

I have a w204 c180 cgi 2010 blue efficiency, I have noticed that if I am in a traffic light and put my foot down to go, the car revs very high and keeps there until eventually changes gears basically screams until you easy your foot on the accelerator. Also if let’s say you go to over take and you need to accelerate there is a hesitation, the car revs very high until change gear to the point that is dangerous, there is like a lag. I only got the car with 80k miles and the gearbox oil was only changed for first time now, all was done from the Mercedes specialist. I this normal? I had a c200 cdi exact same year with 170k and the car was a dream to drive very smooth gear change and the acceleration was always there.

Thanks,

Alex

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You need to get a trusted mechanic - or ideally a Mercedes specialist to take a look - as it it could be one of several things.

When driving normally what happens to the revs when changing gear? I suspect that the torque converter may questionable.

 

[katsoulis1980]

You need to get a trusted mechanic - or ideally a Mercedes specialist to take a look - as it it could be one of several things.

When driving normally what happens to the revs when changing gear? I suspect that the torque converter may questionable.

When I drive normally is more smooth but still after couple of gear changes will change the next one at higher revs

 

[Bellow]

the gearbox oil was only changed for first time now,

Was it doing this before the gearbox oil change? Did it start doing this immediately after the gearbox oil change?

 

[katsoulis1980]

When I drive normally is more smooth but still after couple of gear changes will change the next one at higher revs

Was it doing this before the gearbox oil change? Did it start doing this immediately after the gearbox oil change?

I only got the car after the oil change. The garage that I bought it from was a Mercedes specialist they found out that the oil was never changed before after I asked them about and we split the cost. Initial I thought that was something not right and this is when I pushed the car to see what was going on.

 

[Bellow]

The first thing I'd want to know is if the gearbox oil level is correct - it may be a little low. After that, as BD alludes, there's a number of things it could be. Interrogating the car's electronics for codes/faults will be the quickest route to a correct diagnosis.

 

[alecmascot]

Are you sure this is a fault ?
If you use Kick-down the engine will red-line through the gears.
The contrast from your previous diesel to petrol will be noticible.

 

[Petrol Pete]

alec , I think the OP means the car revs it's nuts off and doesn't make much forward progress.

Some on here (a little less diplomatic than me ) might say "what does he expect from a c180 ?" , But I digress.

There is a school of thought that if you remove all of the ATF from a transmission that has not been serviced in a long while and refresh it with new ATF you remove all the suspended friction material from the clutches and the gearbox will slip until it has been re built with new clutches.

I have never experienced this and would be interested to hear from anyone who has.

Certainly sounds like the clutches are slipping. Could happen if the incorrect fluid was used at the service ??

 

[markjay]

I had two cars with the M271 engine - one with 5g autobox, the other with 7g+, and the typical 'delay before acceleration' on this cars is essentially when you put your foot down suddenly and 'nothing happens', until the engine starts picking up the revs a second or two later.

What the OP is describing, however, is that his automatic transmission sometimes behaves like a slipping clutch on a manual gearbox.

And that doesn't sound right at all.

 

[Bellow]

There is a school of thought that if you remove all of the ATF from a transmission that has not been serviced in a long while and refresh it with new ATF you remove all the suspended friction material from the clutches and the gearbox will slip until it has been re built with new clutches.

Begs the question how a transmission can function from new.
In any case, even with the diligence of including the TC in a fluid change, the old fluid within the box (in servos and on plates) remains.

Certainly sounds like the clutches are slipping. Could happen if the incorrect fluid was used at the service ??

Seems to be happening in all gears so if it is a transmission (not electronic control) problem I'm more inclined to suspect the sprag clutch the stator in the TC rides on has failed. Knowing the lock-up clutch's operational patterns would assist in confirming/refuting that diagnosis.

 

[katsoulis1980]

Begs the question how a transmission can function from new.
In any case, even with the diligence of including the TC in a fluid change, the old fluid within the box (in servos and on plates) remains.

Seems to be happening in all gears so if it is a transmission (not electronic control) problem I'm more inclined to suspect the sprag clutch the stator in the TC rides on has failed. Knowing the lock-up clutch's operational patterns would assist in confirming/refuting that diagnosis.

I have also found two error codes 08106 and 20780 don’t know if they mean anything related

 

[Bellow]

I have also found two error codes 08106 and 20780 don’t know if they mean anything related

I just had a very quick Google and here >> Major issue: Check Engine and Loss of Power / 2012... found this:

''
I’m having issues with the car and found one of your fault codes (01-4C-08106), and also other ones (01-4C-20780, 01-4D-1B204) in the built-in COMAND system. I can’t find the description for these codes anywhere.

My symptoms are very rough and very difficult cold start, sometimes rough idle too, both of which go away when the car heats up or is being used every day. Also, sometimes with acceleration (just normally, like continuing after a red light) the check engine light turns on + ESP turns off simultaneously but there’s no difference in driving and both these errors disappear after restarting the car.''

The same two codes and related to engine functionality.
Auto transmissions depend on engine data to effect their gear shifting strategies so problems there can affect trans performance/behaviour. At this point though, it's over my head. More specialist advice required.

 

[katsoulis1980]

I just had a very quick Google and here >> Major issue: Check Engine and Loss of Power / 2012... found this:

''
I’m having issues with the car and found one of your fault codes (01-4C-08106), and also other ones (01-4C-20780, 01-4D-1B204) in the built-in COMAND system. I can’t find the description for these codes anywhere.

My symptoms are very rough and very difficult cold start, sometimes rough idle too, both of which go away when the car heats up or is being used every day. Also, sometimes with acceleration (just normally, like continuing after a red light) the check engine light turns on + ESP turns off simultaneously but there’s no difference in driving and both these errors disappear after restarting the car.''

The same two codes and related to engine functionality.
Auto transmissions depend on engine data to effect their gear shifting strategies so problems there can affect trans performance/behaviour. At this point though, it's over my head. More specialist advice required.

Also my timing chain was changed before I got the car and I paid only for the parts

 

[Boffin486]

I have a check that is worth doing - just have a quick look at the radiator water level in the expansion tank.
If its just water then thats great, but, if there is ANY pinkish oily contamination (looks like strawberry milkshake) then the transmission oil cooler (in the radiator) will have developed a leak which allows Transmission fluid and water to mix together which is very bad news as the oil in the transmission will be contaminated. If you have got the 'strawberry milkshake' then that is what is in the transmission too!
If any water gets in there, it destroys the clutches as they are stuck onto the plates with a water based glue. Typically, the least effect may be clutch slippage, at worst you will lose drive altogether. A sobering prospect - I know, 'cos it has happened to my car & I'm in the process of changing the destroyed gearbox and radiator..........

 

[katsoulis1980]

I have a check that is worth doing - just have a quick look at the radiator water level in the expansion tank.
If its just water then thats great, but, if there is ANY pinkish oily contamination (looks like strawberry milkshake) then the transmission oil cooler (in the radiator) will have developed a leak which allows Transmission fluid and water to mix together which is very bad news as the oil in the transmission will be contaminated. If you have got the 'strawberry milkshake' then that is what is in the transmission too!
If any water gets in there, it destroys the clutches as they are stuck onto the plates with a water based glue. Typically, the least effect may be clutch slippage, at worst you will lose drive altogether. A sobering prospect - I know, 'cos it has happened to my car & I'm in the process of changing the destroyed gearbox and radiator..........

Actually the water on the coolant tank has an oil contamination, the oil in the gearbox looks ok. I took the car to a Mercedes specialist, he flashed the coolant out couple of time but once everything filled, the contamination is there. Also the the radiator need changing as the lock for draining is broken or something

 

[Boffin486]

Actually the water on the coolant tank has an oil contamination, the oil in the gearbox looks ok. I took the car to a Mercedes specialist, he flashed the coolant out couple of time but once everything filled, the contamination is there. Also the the radiator need changing as the lock for draining is broken or something

Hi Katsoulis, If there appears to be oil in the water but it is NOT pinkish in colour, it may be a leaking head gasket allowing engine oil to get into the water. Try dipping the oil - if the level is down or worse, too high - it may mean water getting into the engine oil too (oil would probably have a greyish colour) but sometimes it only works one way - water into oil OR oil into water. Worth a look.
Moving back to the original suggestiion, I would recommend, perhaps, draining the gearbox oil into a clean container (at least 3 litres in size) to have a look at it.
If its a nice cherry red colour, it's OK & can be poured back in. However, if its at all pinkish, stop driving immediately and get the gearbox flushed again. Unfortunately, that would also mean a new radiator is required at the same time.
Sorry for the scare mongering and I hope you don't actually have these issues!

 

[katsoulis1980]

Actually the water on the coolant tank has an oil contamination, the oil in the gearbox looks ok. I took the car to a Mercedes specialist, he flashed the coolant out couple of time but once everything filled, the contamination is there. Also the the radiator need changing as the lock for draining is broken or something

Hi Katsoulis, If there appears to be oil in the water but it is NOT pinkish in colour, it may be a leaking head gasket allowing engine oil to get into the water. Try dipping the oil - if the level is down or worse, too high - it may mean water getting into the engine oil too (oil would probably have a greyish colour) but sometimes it only works one way - water into oil OR oil into water. Worth a look.
Moving back to the original suggestiion, I would recommend, perhaps, draining the gearbox oil into a clean container (at least 3 litres in size) to have a look at it.
If its a nice cherry red colour, it's OK & can be poured back in. However, if its at all pinkish, stop driving immediately and get the gearbox flushed again. Unfortunately, that would also mean a new radiator is required at the same time.
Sorry for the scare mongering and I hope you don't actually have these issues!

Thanks I am waiting to hear back from the garage that I bought the car from still not even a month that I got it and after will see the next step. From the gearbox inspection point the fluid looked the correct colour. Let’s see is just 80k mile car with service history as well

Hi Katsoulis, If there appears to be oil in the water but it is NOT pinkish in colour, it may be a leaking head gasket allowing engine oil to get into the water. Try dipping the oil - if the level is down or worse, too high - it may mean water getting into the engine oil too (oil would probably have a greyish colour) but sometimes it only works one way - water into oil OR oil into water. Worth a look.
Moving back to the original suggestiion, I would recommend, perhaps, draining the gearbox oil into a clean container (at least 3 litres in size) to have a look at it.
If its a nice cherry red colour, it's OK & can be poured back in. However, if its at all pinkish, stop driving immediately and get the gearbox flushed again. Unfortunately, that would also mean a new radiator is required at the same time.
Sorry for the scare mongering and I hope you don't actually have these issues!

Is like a muddy colour

 

[Boffin486]

Thanks I am waiting to hear back from the garage that I bought the car from still not even a month that I got it and after will see the next step. From the gearbox inspection point the fluid looked the correct colour. Let’s see is just 80k mile car with service history as well

Is like a muddy colour

Hi again, thats the radiator water? It should be a nice green/red or blue, definitely not muddy coloured. It does appear (to me) some possible engine oil contamination. I would suggest an engine compression test to establish if its a head gasket problem - probably should get garage to do that as removing injectors can result in breakages if they haven't been out before. Best let them take the risk!
You could first try flushing out the cooling system, refilling (with distilled water but no antifreeze for now) & run round for a while to see if 'muddiness' comes back. If it does, really sounds like head gasket problems I'm afraid. If it doesn't, let out some of the water & top up with the correct Antifreeze for your car.

 

[Bellow]

Draw small amount of coolant and get it into a glass bowl (or glass) where you can look for the 'rainbow effect' that oil in water creates. From the other side, a drop of oil contaminated with water will spit when dropped onto a very hot surface. If the first check shows oil is present, the second applied to both fluids may ascertain which. Rather than drain trans fluid, find a way of sucking a small amount out via the dipstick tube - assuming there is one.
A compression test isn't really helpful here as intermixing of oil and coolant can be independent of the cylinders and, there are no symptoms of cylinder pressure in the cooling system or crankcase.