63 AMG engine differences

[Gilbertd]

It's been suggested I post in here as the AMG owners tend to live here rather in the general Engines forum, so here goes.

A friend recently bought a G63 AMG from a European auction unseen and has now found it is low on compression on cylinders 4 and 8 and an endoscope has revealed scores in the bores on both these cylinders. There's mixed opinions on trying to rebuild the existing engine as it is an Alusil block so he has asked me to source and fit either a known good secondhand engine or a warranted reconditioned one.

From the VIN his engine is the M157.984 while all the ones I have found so far (only after a fairly quick search admittedly) are either M157.982 or 983. What is the difference? Can I fit an M157.983 for instance? I assume I am going to have to retain his original engine ECU as it is likely to be coded to the VIN, is there anything else that will need to be retained and will the ECU for a .984 run a 983 or 982?

Any recommendations for a source of an engine would be useful too.

 

[badgx]

Only guessing here, 984 might be the 585 bhp engine, with revised turbos with possible solid chains, 983 maybe 550bhp with solid chains and 982 probably the 518bhp engine with split timing chain, just a wild guess though?

My m157 is 981 (i think) that's the 4th 5th and 6th digits reading the engine number from v5c. This tells me the way the engine numbers are denoted might be different to SUV verses say saloon car from the engines numbers you have quoted.

I think mb tech guy or dealership might know the answer here but in theory it should drop in but I think the bell housing will be different given to accommodate the 4WD system?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Apologies I can’t be much help, however having visited the production line I seem to remember that there are differences in the engine according to the application.

Something is telling me that there are differences with the oil pan/sump, possibly due to external shape for packaging reasons, but possibly additional baffles.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Bellow]

Year​	Engine	Model
2013			M157.982	Mercedes Benz W222 S63 AMG
2011			M157.982	Mercedes Benz C218 CLS 63 AMG
2013			M157.982	Mercedes Benz W212 63 AMG
2015			M157.982	Mercedes Benz X292 GLE
2012	-	2014	M157.982	Mercedes Benz W166 ML 63 AMG
2014			M157.982	Mercedes Benz C217/A217
2012	-	2016	M157.982	Mercedes Benz X166 GL
2011			M157.982	Mercedes Benz C218 CLS 63 AMG 4MATIC
2010	-	2013	M157.980	Mercedes Benz W221

No sign of 984 and ML shown as having 982.

M157 available in six states of tune apparently. 980 and 982 below:

Fuel		Camming​	Cubic capacity [ccm]​	No. of cylinders / Arrangement​	No. of valves	Compr. ratio	Performance​	Torque​	Bore x Stroke [mm]​	Year of production​
M157.980 (1x used) M157​	​
gasoline​	Twin Turbo charger​	DOHC​	5 461​	8 Furcate​	32​	10 : 1​	400 kW​	800 Nm​	98 x 90.5​	2010 -​
M157.982 (8x used) M157​	​
gasoline​	Twin Turbo charger​	DOHC​	5 461​	8 Furcate​	32​	10 : 1​	430 kW​	900 Nm​	98 x 90.5​	2012 -​

 

[Gilbertd]

Thank you, more info in the last couple of hours than all weekend. The car is a later one, W463. I spoke to one specialist who said that the difference may be the sump due to the 4WD of the G63. That would suggest all would be needed would be to get a .983 and swap the sump, but it may also need the front cover changing, so it could start getting silly.

One other thing that may be relevant. I've found a 2013 .982 listed for sale as Euro 5 emissions but as the car is later than that it will be Euro 6. I though maybe that is the difference between a .982 and .984? But I've also found a .982, 585bhp motor from a 2019 GLE which as a 2019 car will be Euro 6, so it gets even more confusing.

 

[Gilbertd]

I've been given some duff info, the car is actually a 2013 but was originally supplied to Quatar which may be why the engine code is different to that found on others. I suspect it is very similar, if not the same as, the .982 but without knowing exactly what the differences are, it's a hell of a risk to buy an engine only to find there are major differences. I've also checked with Mercedes about the availability of a re-manufactured engine and it seems there aren't any but they do have 3 brand new engines in stock in Germany. Price is a bit steep though at £33,050 each, plus VAT of course but that does include the core charge of £6,500 on the original engine being sent back.....

 

[badgx]

That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought they'd be interested in the core being returned. Price seems very steep too. I suppose they'll use the core engine for their R&D, research to learn from where things have gone wrong. Is the vehicle based in UK, if so there are a few reconditioned engine suppliers who can swap engines, this might be an alternative but maybe your friend needs to think whether it might be better to right it off and break the vehicle for parts. Difficult decision

 

[badgx]

Come across this engine, still rather steep excluding labour and delivery cost. Mileage I think is unconfirmed.

Mercedes-Benz GLS GLE 63 AMG C292 5.5 Petrol Engine 5461cc 430kw 585hp M157.982 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Mercedes-Benz GLS GLE 63 AMG C292 5.5 Petrol Engine 5461cc 430kw 585hp M157.982 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Gilbertd]

Found that engine already and it seems the same but it is the .982 and without knowing what the differences are between that and the .984, its a lot of money to spend if it isn't suitable or is going to require stripping down to a bare block to swap everything over. Admittedly that would be necessary if we get a re-man but at least we'd know for certain it would be correct and warranted.

The car is currently in France (it's LHD) but the plan is that I will go over in a couple of weeks and trailer it back here. But that is dependant on being able to find a suitable replacement engine. already got someone to assist with fitting it.

 

[rOckyAMG]

Do you have the cars VIN? Please share it will look in to this for you

 

[Gilbertd]

WDCYC7CF2DX200615, which when put into WIS, translates to Vehicle ID, WDC4632721X200615.

 

[Bellow]

Found that engine already and it seems the same but it is the .982 and without knowing what the differences are between that and the .984,

If the difference is external castings eg sump then swapping the relevant parts is obvious - though possibly complicated if the timing cover needs changing and that to that requires removal of the heads. YouTube tear down videos should help gauge that. If the bell housing is different then that is part of the block - no? Would the engine number (including the 98x) being stamped/cast on the block indicate different blocks?

If the difference is electrical/electronic, can the original sensors, actuators, etc be swapped over before re-fitting replacement engine to keep ECU happy?

its a lot of money to spend if it isn't suitable or is going to require stripping down to a bare block to swap everything over. Admittedly that would be necessary if we get a re-man but at least we'd know for certain it would be correct and warranted.

Re-man? I checked Lancourt's website and they don't re-plate 'blind' bores - only detachable (from crankcase) cylinder blocks. Are there others who can salvage damaged coated bores?

 

[Gilbertd]

If the difference is external castings eg sump then swapping the relevant parts is obvious - though possibly complicated if the timing cover needs changing and that to that requires removal of the heads. YouTube tear down videos should help gauge that. If the bell housing is different then that is part of the block - no? Would the engine number (including the 98x) being stamped/cast on the block indicate different blocks?

If the difference is electrical/electronic, can the original sensors, actuators, etc be swapped over before re-fitting replacement engine to keep ECU happy?

Re-man? I checked Lancourt's website and they don't re-plate 'blind' bores - only detachable (from crankcase) cylinder blocks. Are there others who can salvage damaged coated bores?

Engine number starts 157984 and the part number for the block is A157 010 69 00 which is the same part number for a .982 engine. The timing case for a .982 is A 278 015 03 02 which supersedes to A 278 015 02 00 and the timing case for the .984 engine is A 278 015 02 00 so they are the same. It definitely looks as though the bulk of the engine is the same and the difference could well be the sump to clear the live axle on a G63 compared with the other fitments. Sump part numbers are definitely different but other than spending hours comparing part numbers of every single engine component, there doesn't seem any way of finding out if there are any other differences.

I suspect the ECU is going to be coded to the car so it would almost certainly need the ECU from the original engine retaining. No idea if the sensors are going to be different but I can't see them using different sensors on the 585 bhp version of the engine as long as the two are similar age.

I have been told that Mercedes do list a re-man engine even though they don't have any. As the block is solid Alusil (the same as the RS spec Audi engines) where the bore is not plated it can't be bored (oversize pistons are not even listed). There are companies that claim they can hone scratches out then treat the bores to remove the Aluminium and leave the Silicone on the surface so the rings run on that. How successful that would be is debatable, I suppose it would depend on how deep the scratches are and if the bores would still be within tolerance.

 

[badgx]

Also engine bracket can be swapped, which is minor and any other bits and pieces. So sounds promising, hopefully with a bit of confidence, funds and research, sounds like the project is doable, should be exciting too

 

[Bellow]

Engine number starts 157984 and the part number for the block is A157 010 69 00 which is the same part number for a .982 engine. The timing case for a .982 is A 278 015 03 02 which supersedes to A 278 015 02 00 and the timing case for the .984 engine is A 278 015 02 00 so they are the same. It definitely looks as though the bulk of the engine is the same and the difference could well be the sump to clear the live axle on a G63 compared with the other fitments. Sump part numbers are definitely different but other than spending hours comparing part numbers of every single engine component, there doesn't seem any way of finding out if there are any other differences.

Sounds like you have the mechanical hard parts covered.

I suspect the ECU is going to be coded to the car so it would almost certainly need the ECU from the original engine retaining. No idea if the sensors are going to be different but I can't see them using different sensors on the 585 bhp version of the engine as long as the two are similar age.

My concern isn't that the sensors etc are different but coded to the original vehicles ECU/VIN hence the need for retaining them. I am however just guessing. If that were the case, I guess the options would be to fit the replacement engine complete with its sensors etc and see what happens or, change them over before fitment when access is easier.

I have been told that Mercedes do list a re-man engine even though they don't have any. As the block is solid Alusil (the same as the RS spec Audi engines) where the bore is not plated it can't be bored (oversize pistons are not even listed). There are companies that claim they can hone scratches out then treat the bores to remove the Aluminium and leave the Silicone on the surface so the rings run on that. How successful that would be is debatable, I suppose it would depend on how deep the scratches are and if the bores would still be within tolerance.

I'd be wary of trying to reclaim the original bores. Isn't the M157 prone to bore scoring on account of a con rod or side thrust issue? The more so when remapped?

 

[jimjamiejames]

As far as the bore issue, can it not be overbored then sleaved?

I know if it was me I'd rather have a known rebuilt engine than one supplied from an unknown source

 

[Bellow]

As far as the bore issue, can it not be overbored then sleaved?

I know if it was me I'd rather have a known rebuilt engine than one supplied from an unknown source

Even if it can be sleeved (sleeves compromise piston cooling being less thermally conductive than the original bore) I'd want to know more about why the bores got scored. It's coming back to me that there is a known issue with M157s that leads to this - and bent con rods IIRC. If not that another possibility is contaminated oil (in the desert!) in which case there could be extensive wear throughout the engine. Oil analysis would confirm/refute that possibility easily enough though.

 

[E55BOF]

I had a 157.981 on about 85K miles with one scored bore sorted (Terry Gates -well, Lorenzo, his main man) did the job, with that one bore bored out and linered with a steel liner, and all-new OE pistons and conrods, and new timing chains, sprockets and tensioners, at a parts cost of about £7.5K three years ago. I can't recall which engineering company did the liner work, but Terry will know. The crankshaft and the other bores were perfect.

It might be worth having the existing engine stripped down for starters, then you know for sure whether the rest is all good, and will know exactly what is needed. The cost for that will be slight compared to either a new engine, or taking a chance on a second-hand one in unknown condition, and you won't need to worry about swapping parts like sumps, timing cases, or ECUs.

At the end of the day, if the rest of the existing engine is sound, and only two pistons and maybe rods need replacing, I'd think the cost would be a good bit less than that of a secondhand engine.

 

[badgx]

Wondering if it's got to do with clearance that Tasos once demonstrated in a video, indicating slight slack at the bottom end? Makes you wonder though

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Gilbertd]

Apparently scored bores can also be as a result of an overheat. The two damaged ones are number 4 and 8. 8 is obviously going to be one of the rear cylinders and if they number 1-4 on one bank and 5-8 on the other that would be the two rearmost cylinders which would make sense if it was overheated (and I understand it does get rather hot in Quatar).