AMG GTS DCT Issue - 2nd opinions welcome

[flying banana]

Hi all,

Apologies for the long post.

My GTS (purchased used in january - from a non-MB/AMG dealer locally) Has developed a transmission issue and my local MB dealer has diagnosed a clutch control clamp issue and is recommending replacement, which is a transmission out job, requiring specialist tools, and the estimate is over £11k including VAT.

Before going ahead, i thought I'd ask around for a 2nd opinion based on the symptoms and what I know regarding fault codes.

Relevant Fault codes:
Motor Electonics MED1775 - CODE u010387 - Communication with the electronic selector lever module has a malfunction. The message is missing
Direct Select interface - Code U119887 - Communication with the intelligent Servo Module (ism) has a malfunction. The message is missing
Electronic transmission control for double-plate clutch transmission - code 061B00 - the torque calculation of the control unit has a malfunction

Symptoms:

1. Car starts normally, no error messages on dashboard
2. Put the car into drive (comfort mode) ok, 1st gear selected
3. Depress throttle pedal and car pulls away no issues
4. On the first 2nd gear upshift, either it will go in fine at just under 2k rpm, or the shift will be extremely harsh, which then results in one of two different outcomes:

1. There will be a very significant vibration (like a manual gearbox in too high a gear with the clutch out) followed by:
   
   1. Two or Three error messages flashing up on the dashboard
      1. Yellow Damper symbol and "Malfunction - See Owner's manual" message
      2. White "Electronic Rear Axle Differential lock inoperative" message
      3. Red "Reversing not possible - consult workshop" message
   2. A buzzing/grinding noise from the rear of the car
   3. The transmission putting itself into neutral
   4. Occasionally the “Park” button indicator lighting up whilst the car is still coasting
   5. When the red message pops up, the car will continue to drive, but in 1-3-5-7 only, with commensurately longer shifts, which occur at about 3k rpm.
2. Or, The transmission will continue to upshift, with the shift to each even gear being harsh, and downshifts into even gears likewise. If the even shifts are rough, I know it will throw the dashboard errors at some point, typically a few minutes into a journey.

When this first occurred, turning the car off, opening/closing the doors, locking the car and leaving for 10 minutes normally resulting in the remainder of the day being trouble free. I can tell when the transmission is happy as it will upshift in comfort mode at about 1600rpm nice and smoothly. When unhappy, upshifts occur at just over 2k rpm. Occasionally if I put the car into manual mode it will shift ok, albeit with fairly rough even gear changes. There is no change in gearbox NVH (except the rough changes, no whining, no sign there is an issue until it occurs.

My questions really are:

1. if its a mechanical component issue, why does power resetting the car resolve it, and
2. Which is the chicken and which is the egg - are there electical/electronic gremlins causing the gearbox to get confused and upsetting the clutch control on the even/reverse gearset, or is a mechanical issue on the even/reverse gearset causing the electronics to get confused?

One other point - the dealer is currently expecting me to pay for the specialist gearbox lifting/servicing tools required to remove and repair the gearbox - this is not trivial - about £2700 inc vat of the total estimate. Has anyone had experience of a dealer expecting the customer to pay for tools they need to complete a job before? I know I haven't. Apparently they would be my property after the reapair (wow, thanks), and this would only be chanrgeable if they are unable to borrow the toolset from another dealer. This is an AMG rated MB dealership part of a large franchise group, not a little provincial satellite workshop. I fully intend to tell them where they can stuff the charge for the tools, or to point me at a dealership that already has them if they refuse, but just thought i'd check here first to see if it's common practive.

Options as I see them are:

1. Stump up the £8.3k (without tools) to have it fixed, using the 3rd party warranty I have to cover the first £5k, and/or
2. Seek some goodwill contribution from MBUK on repair - the car is 6 years old, but had only covered 37k miles when the issue arose - low mileage for a gearbox mechanical failure (although I don't know whether the car was misued and abused by previous owners)
3. Speak to the MB dealership who have the car to enquire about the option of having them buy the car from me as-is, and take a substantial bath on what I paid.
4. Go back to the supplying dealer with a sale of goods argument, requesting that they foot the reapir bill, or give me my money back less allowances for additional mileage whilst in my possession.

I suspect option 4 would result in a lengthy and potentially expensive legal process, as they sold me the car as a commission sale on behalf of a customer of theirs, who only had the car for 3 or 4 months (which set some alarm bells ringing with me when the problem appeared). Having said that, my sales contract is with them and not with the previous owner.


So - thoughts please:
Do i trust the MB dealer and MB Technical who have diagnosed £11k\s worth of repair, or is the problem likely to persist once the work is done because the mechanical symptom isn't the root cause, If I do go ahead whats the best option for minimising cost - MB goodwill plea, upgrading warranty limit on the fly, seeking legal recourse for costs from the supplying dealer, etc.etc.

When it's working, the car is truly awesome, Ideally I'd keep it but for obvious reasons my trust in AMG engineering has been a bit dented.

Thanks all, and apologies again for the long-winded post.

 

[Jobsworth]

It’s the Getrag 7DCL750 transmission, same as in Ford GT and many Ferraris. It would be worth seeking out a transmission specialist for this rather than Mercedes main dealer in my honest opinion.

 

[Jobsworth]

It’s resetting on a key cycle because when it sees the fault it reverts to a limp mode, only using one clutch, so with odd numbered gears available the problem is on the even gears clutch. A key cycle resets the limp mode until next time the fault occurs.

 

[flying banana]

It’s the Getrag 7DCL750 transmission, same as in Ford GT and many Ferraris. It would be worth seeking out a transmission specialist for this rather than Mercedes main dealer in my honest opinion.

Thanks - I've spent a fiar bit of time on the web looking for similar instances across this transmission in all vehicles and I get that a getrag specialist might have a better insight than MB. The problem as I see it though is that if the issue lies somewhere in the vehicle specific control modules or electronics then I could end up in a "he says/she says" finger pointing circle, hemorraghing cash while the argument goes on.

Having said that if anyone knows of a good independant or Getrag transmission specialist in the South East of the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them.

 

[flying banana]

It’s resetting on a key cycle because when it sees the fault it reverts to a limp mode, only using one clutch, so with odd numbered gears available the problem is on the even gears clutch. A key cycle resets the limp mode until next time the fault occurs.

Useful insight, thanks.

 

[Jobsworth]

Absolutely worth checking that the software updates are up to date, but I would hope the dealership has already done that

 

[flying banana]

Absolutely worth checking that the software updates are up to date, but I would hope the dealership has already done that

Allegedly already done…

 

[Jobsworth]

Mick, here, does a lot of work for me with both Automatics and DCT’s. I personally open 722.6 and 722.9, but I won’t open any others. I don’t know if he gets involved with these, but he probably does. It might be worth having a chat. Mention Gareth at ACE Engineering, Billingshurst sent you. You won’t get straight through to him, but the girls will take your number and he’ll get back to you eventually. He’s hands-on in a very busy ‘shop. If nothing else his advice will be spot on.

Auto Gearbox Specialists

Auto Gearbox Specialists are a long established automatic transmission specialist. We recondition & repair automatic gearboxes & torque converters, and also carry stock of all the industry’s top brand names in both the OE and quality aftermarket.

www.autogearboxes.co.uk

 

[flying banana]

Mick, here, does a lot of work for me with both Automatics and DCT’s. I personally open 722.6 and 722.9, but I won’t open any others. I don’t know if he gets involved with these, but he probably does. It might be worth having a chat. Mention Gareth at ACE Engineering, Billingshurst sent you. You won’t get straight through to him, but the girls will take your number and he’ll get back to you eventually. He’s hands-on in a very busy ‘shop. If nothing else his advice will be spot on.

Auto Gearbox Specialists

Auto Gearbox Specialists are a long established automatic transmission specialist. We recondition & repair automatic gearboxes & torque converters, and also carry stock of all the industry’s top brand names in both the OE and quality aftermarket.

www.autogearboxes.co.uk

Thanks for this

 

[oldguy57]

Hi all,

Apologies for the long post.

My GTS (purchased used in january - from a non-MB/AMG dealer locally) Has developed a transmission issue and my local MB dealer has diagnosed a clutch control clamp issue and is recommending replacement, which is a transmission out job, requiring specialist tools, and the estimate is over £11k including VAT.

Before going ahead, i thought I'd ask around for a 2nd opinion based on the symptoms and what I know regarding fault codes.

Relevant Fault codes:
Motor Electonics MED1775 - CODE u010387 - Communication with the electronic selector lever module has a malfunction. The message is missing
Direct Select interface - Code U119887 - Communication with the intelligent Servo Module (ism) has a malfunction. The message is missing
Electronic transmission control for double-plate clutch transmission - code 061B00 - the torque calculation of the control unit has a malfunction

Symptoms:

1. Car starts normally, no error messages on dashboard
2. Put the car into drive (comfort mode) ok, 1st gear selected
3. Depress throttle pedal and car pulls away no issues
4. On the first 2nd gear upshift, either it will go in fine at just under 2k rpm, or the shift will be extremely harsh, which then results in one of two different outcomes:

1. There will be a very significant vibration (like a manual gearbox in too high a gear with the clutch out) followed by:
   
   1. Two or Three error messages flashing up on the dashboard
      1. Yellow Damper symbol and "Malfunction - See Owner's manual" message
      2. White "Electronic Rear Axle Differential lock inoperative" message
      3. Red "Reversing not possible - consult workshop" message
   2. A buzzing/grinding noise from the rear of the car
   3. The transmission putting itself into neutral
   4. Occasionally the “Park” button indicator lighting up whilst the car is still coasting
   5. When the red message pops up, the car will continue to drive, but in 1-3-5-7 only, with commensurately longer shifts, which occur at about 3k rpm.
2. Or, The transmission will continue to upshift, with the shift to each even gear being harsh, and downshifts into even gears likewise. If the even shifts are rough, I know it will throw the dashboard errors at some point, typically a few minutes into a journey.

When this first occurred, turning the car off, opening/closing the doors, locking the car and leaving for 10 minutes normally resulting in the remainder of the day being trouble free. I can tell when the transmission is happy as it will upshift in comfort mode at about 1600rpm nice and smoothly. When unhappy, upshifts occur at just over 2k rpm. Occasionally if I put the car into manual mode it will shift ok, albeit with fairly rough even gear changes. There is no change in gearbox NVH (except the rough changes, no whining, no sign there is an issue until it occurs.

My questions really are:

1. if its a mechanical component issue, why does power resetting the car resolve it, and
2. Which is the chicken and which is the egg - are there electical/electronic gremlins causing the gearbox to get confused and upsetting the clutch control on the even/reverse gearset, or is a mechanical issue on the even/reverse gearset causing the electronics to get confused?

One other point - the dealer is currently expecting me to pay for the specialist gearbox lifting/servicing tools required to remove and repair the gearbox - this is not trivial - about £2700 inc vat of the total estimate. Has anyone had experience of a dealer expecting the customer to pay for tools they need to complete a job before? I know I haven't. Apparently they would be my property after the reapair (wow, thanks), and this would only be chanrgeable if they are unable to borrow the toolset from another dealer. This is an AMG rated MB dealership part of a large franchise group, not a little provincial satellite workshop. I fully intend to tell them where they can stuff the charge for the tools, or to point me at a dealership that already has them if they refuse, but just thought i'd check here first to see if it's common practive.

Options as I see them are:

1. Stump up the £8.3k (without tools) to have it fixed, using the 3rd party warranty I have to cover the first £5k, and/or
2. Seek some goodwill contribution from MBUK on repair - the car is 6 years old, but had only covered 37k miles when the issue arose - low mileage for a gearbox mechanical failure (although I don't know whether the car was misued and abused by previous owners)
3. Speak to the MB dealership who have the car to enquire about the option of having them buy the car from me as-is, and take a substantial bath on what I paid.
4. Go back to the supplying dealer with a sale of goods argument, requesting that they foot the reapir bill, or give me my money back less allowances for additional mileage whilst in my possession.

I suspect option 4 would result in a lengthy and potentially expensive legal process, as they sold me the car as a commission sale on behalf of a customer of theirs, who only had the car for 3 or 4 months (which set some alarm bells ringing with me when the problem appeared). Having said that, my sales contract is with them and not with the previous owner.


So - thoughts please:
Do i trust the MB dealer and MB Technical who have diagnosed £11k\s worth of repair, or is the problem likely to persist once the work is done because the mechanical symptom isn't the root cause, If I do go ahead whats the best option for minimising cost - MB goodwill plea, upgrading warranty limit on the fly, seeking legal recourse for costs from the supplying dealer, etc.etc.

When it's working, the car is truly awesome, Ideally I'd keep it but for obvious reasons my trust in AMG engineering has been a bit dented.

Thanks all, and apologies again for the long-winded post.

Just on the subject of dealers trying to make customers pay for tools. An MB enthusist I know was asked to pay for a tool to carry out work on his virtually new car. Can't remember what it was but the cost was just short of £1k. This guy ordered 2 new MB's every year! Needless to say he told them to go forth and the dealer bought the tool.
I would study the consumer legislation to establish whether you have a claim against the supplying garage within a 6 month period. It may not cost you anything except time.

 

[Petrol Pete]

OP , my guess is that MB will remove the transmission and send it out to a specialist anyway , then they would weigh up the costs an probably try to sell you a new transmission.

Keep doing your own research for now.

 

[flying banana]

OP , my guess is that MB will remove the transmission and send it out to a specialist anyway , then they would weigh up the costs an probably try to sell you a new transmission.

Keep doing your own research for now.

Will do - as they don't currently have the tools, my guess is that they havent done the job before, which doesnt fill me with confidence. Hopefully there's a copy of the haynes manual for the 7DCL750 they can get hold of

 

[Jobsworth]

Will do - as they don't currently have the tools, my guess is that they havent done the job before, which doesnt fill me with confidence. Hopefully there's a copy of the haynes manual for the 7DCL750 they can get hold of

Tea everywhere. Cheers!

 

[Petrol Pete]

Here it is.

Ferrari Gearbox 7DCL750 Repair Manual

Ferrari Gearbox 7DCL750 Repair Manual Size: 96.6 MB Language: English Format: PDF, JPG, MP4 Brand: Ferrari Type of Machine: Gearbox Type of Manual: Repair Manual Model: Ferrari 7DCL750 Gearbox List of Files: Weep Hole Leak and 2399 a6f72ce3-a532-40e8-bd78-845718138582 2.JPG...

www.autorepairmanuals.ws

Or this

7DCL750 Transmission parts, repair guidelines, problems, manuals

Parts for 7DCL750: compare prices for Overhaul Kits, Friction Kits, Bushings, Bearing, Solenoid Kits, Valve body, Torque converters, Planetary Gear kits, Filters, Gaskets, Seals, Pressure Plates, Differentials, Sensors, Valves.

go4trans.com

 

[flying banana]

I thought I'd close this off, now i have the car back. The electro-hydraulic clutch control unit was replaced by MB. The dealer ended up loaning the tools required so I didn't need to pay anything for them. The warranty company covered the majority of the bill, I endedu p picking up a chunk of it though - MBUK weren't interested in any goodwill gestures on the vehicle. The dealer did give a 30% disocunt on labour rate, and waived the exchange charges on the main parts that needed replacement. i've been told to treat the transmission as if new, and run in gently for the first few hundred miles.

I've had the car back for about a week, and it has (so far) driven perfectly. It seems obvious now that there was a latent problem with the gearbox when I bought the car - shifts are now totally imperceptible and the clutch take up point in first and reverse from a standstill are much more consistent than they were prior to the work. Alas, I have no proof - no historic codes, no internal evidence of when the issue was likely to have started, and so i don't really have much of a leg to stand on in pursuing the supplying dealer, especially as it was a commission sale on behalf of one of their customers.

Lessons learned:

1. An obvious one, but if you're buying a £140k car for £63k, expect £140k car level repair bills if anything goes wrong
2. WarrantyWise have been great, and have quickly and efficiently authorised and paid for the limits of the policy cover - no complaints
3. Check your warranty t&cs - although the annual limit was ore than enough to cover the repair costs, the single item limit bit me. The warranty was paid for by hte supplying dealer, but my assumption was that if anything was going to go wrong, it wouldn't likely be the "bulletproof" engine/drivetrain that the internet would have you believe. A sinlge item limit of £10k would have had me fully covered, but that's not what I had
4. It's probably a good idea to buy something like the GTS as an MB approved used car - with the gold plated, bullet proof warranty that gives you. I'd certainly think twice about buying anything like this from an independant again.

Anyhow, the car is back, and so far behaving itself. Time will tell but at the moment I am in the process of learning to trust it again. Hopefully this will be a case of "all's well that ends well"

 

[TrueSpirit]

Sorry for your horror story. Glad you've got a functioning car!