Audio upgrade reasonably happy

[C60Free]

When you say full Blam speaker install with no sub did you replace the woofers in the foot wells? I think this could be a weak link in my current system. I have just got front door replacement speakers so far (4 inch drivers plus tweeters) and I think my car only has one factory fitted speaker in the passenger well.

I did replace the woofers too. In actual fact, it's not really a full Blam setup as I only replaced the fronts (two in each door) plus the footwell woofers.

The rear speakers are still stock, and I haven't got a center either. So it's half a full setup

Do you have the Audio20 or the Burmester? I could be wrong but I think the non-Burmester system has a single woofer (can't remember the size, either)

The footwell subs are worth doing, especially if you have a DSP I reckon. They do kick much more than the stock ones so I'd expect Ground Zero to be similar.

 

[ChrisPDuck]

Serious question. Are there many people that can really justify big sums being spent on car audio improvements in what is essentially a noisy environment anyway? I get it in a quiet house, but in an car where the sound levels constantly vary (exception made in top-end cars where extreme effort is made from factory) HK/BM with better speakers yes, but £1K plus?

(Disclosure - my hearing is not great anyway and I wear hearing aids)

You're right that as a listening environment a car isn't as good as a domestic setting, but it's not so bad that an improvement in the sound quality won't be audible. To many people, upgrading the wooly/muddy factory sound is important to get the most enjoyment from a car. In my case, the few hundred pounds (I forget the price - £600?) that I spent on an Audison Prima 8.9 Bit DSP amp was worth every penny to me. I fitted it myself, so saved some money there.

Oddly, the Boston system in my Chrysler 300C, which was a fraction of the cost of the S600 when new, has a much better sound, with just enough adjustment to get quite a nice balance. For me, the problem with the HK system in the S600 was that the bass control didn't go deep enough, and the treble didn't go high enough, whereas the Chrysler's Boston system is much better in this respect.

 

[robdmarsh]

I did replace the woofers too. In actual fact, it's not really a full Blam setup as I only replaced the fronts (two in each door) plus the footwell woofers.

The rear speakers are still stock, and I haven't got a center either. So it's half a full setup

Do you have the Audio20 or the Burmester? I could be wrong but I think the non-Burmester system has a single woofer (can't remember the size, either)

The footwell subs are worth doing, especially if you have a DSP I reckon. They do kick much more than the stock ones so I'd expect Ground Zero to be similar.

I think I had the Audio 20 but now my amplification is done by the Kicker Key which is an amp (50wpc and DSP together) and yes, I think I have one woofer in the footwell. Do you think just replacing the one will give more punch to the sound?

 

[Londonscottish]

Can I ask you how much was your outlay for the hidden sub including fitting. It's definitely not something I would attempt to do myself.

Something like £500 all in. It went into a space behind the LHS side cover in the boot. Neat. Not quite as good as the factory HK sub in my previous E Class (both estates FWIW) but the Morel door speakers and tweeters more than make up for that.

 

[Londonscottish]

Serious question. Are there many people that can really justify big sums being spent on car audio improvements in what is essentially a noisy environment anyway? I get it in a quiet house, but in an car where the sound levels constantly vary (exception made in top-end cars where extreme effort is made from factory) HK/BM with better speakers yes, but £1K plus?

(Disclosure - my hearing is not great anyway and I wear hearing aids)

Yes. Easily. My previous E Class had HK which was by far the best sound system I'd ever had in a car. When I got a newer one I couldn't find one with HK or whatever so I had to endure the shit factory set up for several years. It used to really **** me off. Especially at speed where it just sounded like a mess. To the extent that anything spoken word was unlistenable and music was just a garbled mess.

For the cost of three mumflies on a leased white diesel mumtruck, I've now got a powerful and crystal clear sound system which make a massive difference to music, podcasts and audio books.

I listen to it all the time and it's particularly useful on long multi-hour journeys when me and the mrs flip between playlists and podcasts with the occasional new updates.

I also included a an Android/Apple system which brings the ICE up to modern standard and enables Google Maps, Waze etc.

 

[Londonscottish]

I saw this a while ago. Might be of interest…

Upgrading The W205 Burmester Audio

Looking for a write-up on the standard Audio 20 system? W205 Audio 20 NEW: Visit my write up and walk-thru to create your own Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround, and 24 Bit Hi Res Stereo Audio DVDs for you…

w205audio.wordpress.com

All too much hassle for me. The so-called ‘Burmester’ system in our S205 is ok for us. It’s not the best system I’ve heard nor is it the worst. As far as I can tell the system is actually made by Harman Kardon. It’s certainly not made by Burmester any more than the central dashboard clock on the AMG models is made by IWC. Just branding exercise like the AMG Line thing.

Some of the MB premium setups give you just the amp; the speakers are often standard cardboard cheapos - which is all a bit pointless.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Surely there must have been something very wrong with that. I drive a lot of cars in my side job of moving cars between dealers... so I listen to a lot of stereos..... never heard anything close to so bad that I could describe as "that anything spoken word was unlistenable and music was just a garbled mess."

 

[Londonscottish]

The guy that fitted my Ground Zero door speakers said that this kind of panel damping installation was not necessary as the speakers are not large and don't create much in the way of reverberations.

The point of all the sound deadening is to stop the sound bouncing all over the place in the door cavity and creating resonations in the inner and outer skins.

The size, power or type of speaker doesn't matter. Dynamat-ing would improve the sound made by any speaker. That and very rigid mounting. IIRC ComandOnline (I have no affiliation) both bonded and screwed mine in.

 

[Londonscottish]

Surely there must have been something very wrong with that. I drive a lot of cars in my side job of moving cars between dealers... so I listen to a lot of stereos..... never heard anything close to so bad that I could describe as "that anything spoken word was unlistenable and music was just a garbled mess."

No, that's just what the standard system in a 212 sounds like. It's OK-ish if you're just trundling round town but one you get a bit of speed up it all starts to fall to bits.

I'm used to spending a lot on headphones, ear buds and domestic hifi and the car system was a massive let down in comparison.

Now it's not. Simple as that.

 

[robdmarsh]

Something like £500 all in. It went into a space behind the LHS side cover in the boot. Neat. Not quite as good as the factory HK sub in my previous E Class (both estates FWIW) but the Morel door speakers and tweeters more than make up for that.

Thanks for that, I've got a space like that in my C class estate. And what make is your sub?

 

[Londonscottish]

Thanks for that, I've got a space like that in my C class estate. And what make is your sub?

Mine was branded Phoenix but IIRC is either the same as or identical to the Blam version. I was given the choice of 8 inch or 10 inch. Went for the 10.

For a year I ran it with just the new head unit and sub but with the original door speakers and tweeters. The sub made a huge difference as it filled out the low end stuff very effectively. At low speeds/volumes all was good as I didn't have to drive the door speakers as hard as before.

 

[robdmarsh]

Mine was branded Phoenix but IIRC is either the same as or identical to the Blam version. I was given the choice of 8 inch or 10 inch. Went for the 10.

For a year I ran it with just the new head unit and sub but with the original door speakers and tweeters. The sub made a huge difference as it filled out the low end stuff very effectively. At low speeds/volumes all was good as I didn't have to drive the door speakers as hard as before.

So just to clarify this is a powered sub or passive sub? My Kicker Key is only 50wpc I'm wondering if it would have enough grunt to power a sub.

 

[Londonscottish]

So just to clarify this is a powered sub or passive sub? My Kicker Key is only 50wpc I'm wondering if it would have enough grunt to power a sub.

It's a powered sub. Phoenix 10 inch Gold. Something like 100 watts.

Comand wired it in with a hidden volume control in the glove box. I played around with it before deciding that "10" was best

 

[Skd884]

A forum sponser did the following on my 204, they fitted morel speakers and an alpine sub and left the oem amplifier in situ and it sounds superb -

Front:
2 x MOREL MAXIMO 6½" 2-WAY 90W RMS

Rear:
2 x MOREL MAXIMO 6½" COAX 80W RMS

Boot:
1 x ALPINE 8" SUPER COMPACT ACTIVE SUBWOOFER PWE-V80 160W MAX

And Dynamat acoustic insulation inside the doors.

 

[GeeJayW]

Some of the MB premium setups give you just the amp; the speakers are often standard cardboard cheapos - which is all a bit pointless.

Did you read the article in the link? They did retain some original speakers, but do replace some to and added Subs and DSP.

 

[Londonscottish]

Did you read the article in the link? They did retain some original speakers, but do replace some to and added Subs and DSP.

Didn't see a link.

I'm just relaying what I've found out from the Comand guys. I was asking why some "premium" systems are amazing and some are not. Not just MB but other manufacturers too. I loved the HK in my 211 but other HK's are very "meh" according to disappointed people on the internet. Same goes for Burmester, B&O etc and varies from model to model, manufacturer to manufacturer.

TL;DR you don't always get speakers commensurate with the amp.

 

[robdmarsh]

It's a powered sub. Phoenix 10 inch Gold. Something like 100 watts.

Comand wired it in with a hidden volume control in the glove box. I played around with it before deciding that "10" was best

Just looked at the 8 inch version of this. Very reasonably priced. I think 8 inch would be fine for me, I'm not really a bass head, just looking for a bit more punch to my sound.

 

[robdmarsh]

Didn't see a link.

I'm just relaying what I've found out from the Comand guys. I was asking why some "premium" systems are amazing and some are not. Not just MB but other manufacturers too. I loved the HK in my 211 but other HK's are very "meh" according to disappointed people on the internet. Same goes for Burmester, B&O etc and varies from model to model, manufacturer to manufacturer.

TL;DR you don't always get speakers commensurate with the amp.

Yeah, I've heard the same about premium sound systems. MB Burmeister seems to get a bad rap and I've heard mixed reports for other upgraded systems from other manufacturers and I'm very conscious of the old trick of an audio brand just lending their name to a car manufacturer but not having any involvement in the design of the products. The HK upgrade in my w204 however I thought was pretty good on the whole though maybe lacking in detail and also needs DSP. My current set-up, which has cost me £940 up till now, I would say is potentially good but needs more oomph. This is where I'm hoping a powered compact sub will do the trick. I'll be talking to my guy in Swindon soon and see what he says. What I like about him is that if I source the audio parts cheaper than what he sells them at, he doesn't charge more for installation to make up the difference unlike the guy in Oxford who would only fit gear sold by him.

 

[Skd884]

Yeah, I've heard the same about premium sound systems. MB Burmeister seems to get a bad rap and I've heard mixed reports for other upgraded systems from other manufacturers and I'm very conscious of the old trick of an audio brand just lending their name to a car manufacturer but not having any involvement in the design of the products. The HK upgrade in my w204 however I thought was pretty good on the whole though maybe lacking in detail and also needs DSP. My current set-up, which has cost me £940 up till now, I would say is potentially good but needs more oomph. This is where I'm hoping a powered compact sub will do the trick. I'll be talking to my guy in Swindon soon and see what he says. What I like about him is that if I source the audio parts cheaper than what he sells them at, he doesn't charge more for installation to make up the difference unlike the guy in Oxford who would only fit gear sold by him.

A decent sub will make a huge difference, the alpine one in my post above is very good.

 

[Londonscottish]

Yeah, I've heard the same about premium sound systems. MB Burmeister seems to get a bad rap and I've heard mixed reports for other upgraded systems from other manufacturers and I'm very conscious of the old trick of an audio brand just lending their name to a car manufacturer but not having any involvement in the design of the products. The HK upgrade in my w204 however I thought was pretty good on the whole though maybe lacking in detail and also needs DSP. My current set-up, which has cost me £940 up till now, I would say is potentially good but needs more oomph. This is where I'm hoping a powered compact sub will do the trick. I'll be talking to my guy in Swindon soon and see what he says. What I like about him is that if I source the audio parts cheaper than what he sells them at, he doesn't charge more for installation to make up the difference unlike the guy in Oxford who would only fit gear sold by him.

An active 8 inch sub will most definitely make a big difference.