buying US spec W124 320CE Convertible

[Two Bags]

I'm thinking of importing this model from the US. The dollar is weak to the pound and prices are much better than over here. I did this with my 1958 190sl - which I will be selling - and I've had 4 great years enjoyment.

I need advice on the following.

Becasue of their emissions laws, is the cars engine set up to offer less power? It does not appear to have the E/S (econ/sport switch that is on my E320 Coupe. Can anyone advise here please.

Left hand drive is not an issue as an owner - my 190 and Vw Beetle cabriolet which I've had for 20 years are left hookers and no probs. But if I wanted to sell on, a UK buyer may be put off? How much less would a 60,000mile condtion A car of this spec be worth than a right hand drive (less made so higher cost?).

The one I've spotted is being offered for $19900 0r £10,500. Deal or no deal? If its as good as it looks, then the old 190sl will have to make way. If anyone's interested you can check out some pics at
http://uk.msnusers.com/PaulTuohys1958Mercedes190sl/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

Great forum. Thanks






Any advivce welcome.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Welcome!

 

[neilrr]

I don't understand the reason behind buying a US car. Why?

Mileage doesn't hurt these cars if they are serviced & I think you could easily find a good UK spec car for the same money. A couple of interesting W124s found on 1 site with about 2 mins. of digging.

******** is merc seller (without the gap). For some strange reason the mbclub site is the only site in the known universe which blocks out the name of this company.

http://www.**********.com/popup.cfm?p_n=326402&p_i=326402

http://www.**********.com/popup.cfm?p_n=218597&p_i=218597

 

[imadoofus]

No deal.

By the time you've added in things like shipping costs, you might as well buy a 100k miler here. £10,500 isn't such a great saving IMO

PJ

 

[stats007]

The E/S switch is Economy / Standard.

I wouldn't bother with a LHD US model personally. The 190 was a different story and no doubt worth doing.

 

[Rose Chap]

Baffled as to why you'd want to sell that gorgeous looking 1958 190 to get an E Class convertible!

I've got absolutely nothing against W124s (I had a 300E for a time) but its a strange 'progression' from a classic like that.

Also completely agree with Neilrr and imadoofus and their comments about whether its worth shipping one over.

 

[A-AvantGarde]

Your 190SL is gorgeous. Defintiely no deal regarding the 320 CE Convertible. 10.5K + shipping & taxes etc not worth it. Yes for some rare cars it makes sense but this type of 124 Coupe or Cabrio is readily available in the UK.

Shop around (it does take time for these things) and you'll no doubt find a good example. The UK was a large market for the 124 Coupe & Convertible...

 

[janner]

Baffled as to why you'd want to sell that gorgeous looking 1958 190 to get an E Class convertible!

Hey, leave the man alone! Let him sell it if he wants to.

How much for the 190SL?

 

[RJIF]

Keep the SL, its a beautiful car as it seems that there is nothing wrong with it anyway i rekon you should keep it until you at least find something you want to change to on home ground, again - great looking SL

 

[big x]

Have you checked the German market ? Prices and choice seem better although I'm no expert on this.

adam

 

[tinkypot]

Wow! Your car (SL) is truly stunning... Why would you want to change it for something a little ordinary? (No offence to CE owners )

Not that I can afford the upkeep, but do you mind me asking how much you are looking for?

Alex

 

[kensalriser]

A nice looking car the 190SL, but all I've heard about driving it is that it's heavy, underpowered and handles horribly.

 

[Two Bags]

Well gentlemen, I appear to have sparked quite a few views!! First of all thanks for the complementry words on the 190sl otherwise known as "Grace". The 320CE took a battering, unfairly really. Here's my thougts - honestly. When you consider the price of a 300sl made in the '50's its mad. The 190sl has a beautiful design and is currenly about 10 times cheaper - say £300k to £30k. Now the 300sl is a great car, but its not 10 times greater. The 190sl has to be one of the most beautiful cars - for the money - if you like 50's curves - I do - thats why I bought it. People just grin when they see it. it drives well as a cruiser. I remember when I picked it up in Liverpool docks at 10pm and drove the 250miles to Dartford in Kent. 80mph no issues. That was four years ago. The handling is actually not bad but there is major oversteer if you're not careful. Underpowered? Well compared to anything 21st century but there were not many cars in such luxurious spec that did 110 top in 1958. We are talking a car pushing 50 years old. So thats the rub. As an investment the 190sl seems to be sitting still. There were 29,000 produced from 53-62 at $5,000. The 300sl had only 2000 produced at $8,000k in the same years. Thats why they now cost a bomb. And of course its a "supercar". I'd expect the 190 to eventually rise but the truth is its not exactally a daily driver but a great car for weekends and cruising. I think a classic car should be used more than 500miles a year. So what next. The 300CE convertible is a modern car by comparrison but now 10-14 years old. They were built in very low numbers and in the next few years will appreciate. What you get for your money is at the moment, in my opinion, is a great future classic that you can drive, service and push on many ,000's of miles. There were only 550 imported to the UK so there's no way a good clean example will not appreciate. What you get is a hell of alot of car and true 4 seater top down motoring in pure luxury. As for price... I have been doing a lot of research and I can tell you that finding a low mileage (30-60k) for under 12k with a genuine service history is impossible. If anyone has such a car tell me and lets tallk!! The only one's I've found are with dealers. Charles Ironside wants £18,000- £22,000!The US has a number of VERY low milage cars. Prices are definately up to 40% lower. you can import for £1500 incuding taxes - i have the quotes. So if you are okay with LHD it may make sense. To sell on, you may need RHD. The few private owners I've sourced want £10-12k for a 150,000 car with dodgy service history. Show me a good private seller with a low mileage 320 CE convert and I'll show you my readies!! Maybe though I'll still hold on to my 190sl - she is a good old gal.... Thanks to everyone for their views. at least we agree the Benz rocks!

 

[big x]

Well gentlemen, I appear to have sparked quite a few views!! First of all thanks for the complementry words on the 190sl otherwise known as "Grace". The 320CE took a battering, unfairly really. Here's my thougts - honestly. When you consider the price of a 300sl made in the '50's its mad. The 190sl has a beautiful design and is currenly about 10 times cheaper - say £300k to £30k. Now the 300sl is a great car, but its not 10 times greater. The 190sl has to be one of the most beautiful cars - for the money - if you like 50's curves - I do - thats why I bought it. People just grin when they see it. it drives well as a cruiser. I remember when I picked it up in Liverpool docks at 10pm and drove the 250miles to Dartford in Kent. 80mph no issues. That was four years ago. The handling is actually not bad but there is major oversteer if you're not careful. Underpowered? Well compared to anything 21st century but there were not many cars in such luxurious spec that did 110 top in 1958. We are talking a car pushing 50 years old. So thats the rub. As an investment the 190sl seems to be sitting still. There were 29,000 produced from 53-62 at $5,000. The 300sl had only 2000 produced at $8,000k in the same years. Thats why they now cost a bomb. And of course its a "supercar". I'd expect the 190 to eventually rise but the truth is its not exactally a daily driver but a great car for weekends and cruising. I think a classic car should be used more than 500miles a year. So what next. The 300CE convertible is a modern car by comparrison but now 10-14 years old. They were built in very low numbers and in the next few years will appreciate. What you get for your money is at the moment, in my opinion, is a great future classic that you can drive, service and push on many ,000's of miles. There were only 550 imported to the UK so there's no way a good clean example will not appreciate. What you get is a hell of alot of car and true 4 seater top down motoring in pure luxury. As for price... I have been doing a lot of research and I can tell you that finding a low mileage (30-60k) for under 12k with a genuine service history is impossible. If anyone has such a car tell me and lets tallk!! The only one's I've found are with dealers. Charles Ironside wants £18,000- £22,000!The US has a number of VERY low milage cars. Prices are definately up to 40% lower. you can import for £1500 incuding taxes - i have the quotes. So if you are okay with LHD it may make sense. To sell on, you may need RHD. The few private owners I've sourced want £10-12k for a 150,000 car with dodgy service history. Show me a good private seller with a low mileage 320 CE convert and I'll show you my readies!! Maybe though I'll still hold on to my 190sl - she is a good old gal.... Thanks to everyone for their views. at least we agree the Benz rocks!

£1500 inc. taxes ?? what about VAT @ 17.5% on non-EU imports ?
Most E320 convertibles seem to fetch around £8500 on Ebay.I know
someone who paid that for a 95 with 92k in average condition.BTW the sportline suspension on this one gave bad scuttle shake on rubbish UK roads.Given these where £50k new
11 years ago I guess that's good value although I think they will bottom out at 6k in a couple of years time.
If you where after an ultra low mileage car with an unbody exactly as it left the factory American Ebay does produce results on west coast cars.There was one recently with 8k miles and around 100 pics posted including 8 underneath.I think it went for $40 k.
-----------------------------------------------------
E320 2Dr Cabriolet 3.2 5spd Auto (1995/M)

Price New: £52,000

Wisebuyers Car valuation adjusted for 40,000 miles

Retail: £9,750

Private Good: £7,350
Private Average: £5,860
Private Poor: £4,000
Part Exchange: £6,400
Trade: £5,977

--------------------------------------------------

adam

 

[Two Bags]

Hi Adam,

If you can get a car registered as a classic on the importers lists then you only get charged 6% - I did it with the 190sl (which wasn't on the list at the time and I know the name of the person who makes the list!!) There are criteria but its all very vague and open to interpretation and persuation.

I think $40k - £22k for an 8,000 mile 320 CE 'vert is a bargain.....in the Uk it would have gone for alot more. Most are in the US, hence the lower price. Go to ebay now and see how many are on the US site (7). Not one on the UK site. Its all bout supply and demand. A 3 day ebooker ticket will get you to your chosed car for £300 inculding a hotel on a short stay. See the states, buy a car. When I bougt my 190sl fours years ago the exchange rate was 1.62. Now is nearly 1.90!! Your dream car won't turn up 30 miles away. Still waiting for that UK low mileage 320CE and sitting on my £10-12K....It's not there you know, not at that spec and price. They're going up... Your right about the US Adam, they do produce results and there dealers are not bad either. Cutomer care is very high.

 

[big x]

Hi Adam,

If you can get a car registered as a classic on the importers lists then you only get charged 6% - I did it with the 190sl (which wasn't on the list at the time and I know the name of the person who makes the list!!) There are criteria but its all very vague and open to interpretation and persuation.

I think $40k - £22k for an 8,000 mile 320 CE 'vert is a bargain.....in the Uk it would have gone for alot more. Most are in the US, hence the lower price. Go to ebay now and see how many are on the US site (7). Not one on the UK site. Its all bout supply and demand. A 3 day ebooker ticket will get you to your chosed car for £300 inculding a hotel on a short stay. See the states, buy a car. When I bougt my 190sl fours years ago the exchange rate was 1.62. Now is nearly 1.90!! Your dream car won't turn up 30 miles away. Still waiting for that UK low mileage 320CE and sitting on my £10-12K....It's not there you know, not at that spec and price. They're going up... Your right about the US Adam, they do produce results and there dealers are not bad either. Cutomer care is very high.

Given the cars where still being sold new in the UK in 1996 good luck on the classic registration !!
There is/was an E36 AMG convertible for sale at the G-wagon site,can't remember the details but it was in last months classic car mag.

adam

 

[imadoofus]

When you consider the price of a 300sl made in the '50's its mad. The 190sl has a beautiful design and is currenly about 10 times cheaper - say £300k to £30k. Now the 300sl is a great car, but its not 10 times greater....There were 29,000 produced from 53-62 at $5,000. The 300sl had only 2000 produced at $8,000k in the same years. Thats why they now cost a bomb....I think a classic car should be used more than 500miles a year. So what next. The 300CE convertible is a modern car by comparrison but now 10-14 years old. They were built in very low numbers and in the next few years will appreciate. What you get for your money is at the moment, in my opinion, is a great future classic that you can drive, service and push on many ,000's of miles....I have been doing a lot of research and I can tell you that finding a low mileage (30-60k) for under 12k with a genuine service history is impossible. If anyone has such a car tell me and lets tallk!!....The US has a number of VERY low milage cars. Prices are definately up to 40% lower. you can import for £1500 incuding taxes....The few private owners I've sourced want £10-12k for a 150,000 car with dodgy service history. Show me a good private seller with a low mileage 320 CE convert and I'll show you my readies!!....

It sounds like you know the classic market. So do I, and may comments are:

You're right, a left-hooker will be more difficult to sell on. I don't believe this US-based car represents enough of a saving to make that worthwhile. 10.5k + 1.5k (?) = 12k You're now into UK car territory.

What costs are involved in converting the US car to UK spec? Lights, etc.

If you intend to "push on many '000s of miles", why are you so bent on a low mileage car to start with? The majority of these cars are well cared for, mileage notwithstanding, and as we've discussed on this forum in the past, the gap between the good cars and the bad is so wide that you can spot it from space. A good car will make its price all day long, irrespective of mileage.

It's well known that many US-sourced classics from the 50's and 60's can be good UK buys, as they can come from rust-free climates; and the supply of good examples is dwindling. That simply isn't the case with W124s. Terminal rust isn't an issue, and they aren't yet rare enough to make a US car attractive in the European market. I too believe they are on the cusp of classicdom (which is why I have a very good E320 coupe as a daily driver). I also know that it will be many years before the USA provenance of the car you're considering will stop counting against it. History is all important with these cars, and buyers at this end of the market will shy away from a car imported from the US, due to an innate fear of the unknown.

And as regards your comments about the 300SL not being ten times better than the 190, you know full well that classic car values are as much qualitative as quantitative. The value of one car cannot be measured against another in such terms. Rarity, condition, reflected glory of sporting success all contribute to a car's value, as does provenance. As you pointed out, the 300SL was built in relatively small numbers, and it wasn't cheap. The majority therefore were originally bought by titled or famous owners, and like it or not, that makes a difference to the car's value today.

As to 320 convertibles; I can find a '95 N, in Tourmaline with grey leather, 50,000 miles at £16k, a '94 in black with black leather and 85,000 for £16k, a '96 in blue with AMG bodykit for £12k and an L reg in Almandine red with 62,000 for £8,000.
etc
etc

My advice is go for a UK car (or Euopean if you must). Get the best you can find, and don't get hung up on mileage.

PJ

 

[grober]

Rust

It's well known that many US-sourced classics from the 50's and 60's can be good UK buys, as they can come from rust-free climates; and the supply of good examples is dwindling. That simply isn't the case with W124s. Terminal rust isn't an issue, and they aren't yet rare enough to make a US car attractive in the European market. I too believe they are on the cusp of classicdom (which is why I have a very good E320 coupe as a daily driver). I also know that it will be many years before the USA provenance of the car you're considering will stop counting against it. History is all important with these cars, and buyers at this end of the market will shy away from a car imported from the US, due to an innate fear of the unknown.
I think Imadoofus has raised a very relevant point when he mentions RUST which is a big factor in the longevity of any model in the UK! I am always envious to see pics of the underside of mercs from the hot dry states in the USA. There is literally ZERO corrosion on 10 year old cars. Despite the best efforts of owners in the UK structural rust is the final nail in the coffin of many UK Mercs. The downside is trim/hoods prematurely aged by high UV, aircon problems, and accelerated dreaded wiring loom degredation. The states also has its fair share of the E500 and e420 saloons if you like a V8 under the bonnet. Not of course available on the convertible except as a one off conversion and there are one or two of those about.
If you can live with the LHD then fine and you can always sell it in continental Europe-former Soviet block- if they dont steal it first!

 

[janner]

This one looked nice

 

[grober]

Nice one straight from factory almost!

This one looked nice

Buy it now price was £20,830 similar to a mint Silver Arrows price but with minimal miles but shipping on top and LHD . See what I mean about the zero rust.