C63 fuel trim problem

[Duff3103]

As a test on bank1, swap the camshaft solenoid valve over between intake and exhaust. They are same part.

Then take reading and see if the values follow. The exhaust solenoids are the ones at the top of the camshaft covers. The bottom solenoid are for intake.

Don't forget to swap over the electrical connection plugs on the engine over. Hope it makes sense? Do one side to start with, then take reading. If the values follow, replace the solenoids.

They are actually different so I’d advise not doing so, you could change side to side but not intake to exhaust as they are different part no’s

 

[badgx]

Yes those are the plugs, and those are the solenoids. Bank1 is easiest access on E63. Put a bit of rag under neath to catch any drips falling in the serpentine belts, you'll get about 3 or 4 table spoon of oil dripping from the bottom.

If I remember, the bolts are T30 or T35? If they've never been changed, you find a bit of seal on top of the screws. You'll know what I mean when you see the screws.

Also when refitting, gently insert in and gently hand tight the screws. I think it's about 20NM torque setting. Don't over tighten, good luck

 

[Duff3103]

No cel light just baught a scanner and checked i shouldn’t had lol

Zero leaks exhaust or intake

New MAFs and air filters.

I changed the intake manifold with new one , injectors are installed used one made no difference

So if there was an issue with the fuel trim the ecu would throw a code, I wouldn’t be chasing a fault that sounds like it isn’t there as you aren’t experiencing any recognisable faults or drive ability issues.
I also wouldn’t believe too much into what a cheap scanner tells you either. Especially on a car like this as you could be again chasing something that is wrong.
Get a proper diagnosis done using a proper diagnostic machine but if there was an issue the ecu would flag it and if it’s passing the emissions test then you could be worrying over nothing

Iv also just noticed in your screen shot that both banks seem to be running exactly the same LTFT % value so would have to be a common fault between both banks and the only thing common between both banks is the inlet manifold but again I would t be reading too much into readings on a cheap scan tool

 

[badgx]

They are actually different so I’d advise not doing so, you could change side to side but not intake to exhaust as they are different part no’s

Been almost 2 years when I tinkered with mine They're the same, it's just the lenght of cable if I remember correctly, hence the part no. Cables do reach though, should be enough for testing.

 

[Duff3103]

Been almost 2 years when I tinkered with mine They're the same, it's just the lenght of cable if I remember correctly, hence the part no. Cables do reach though, should be enough for testing.

Too the naked eye yes they are but there is a difference when you open them up as I found stripping the plates for 63 motorsports replacements. You couldn’t fit the exhaust plate to the inlet adjuster as the pin hole didn’t line up if I remember correctly.

As stated for testing purposes it will work actually as that’s exaclty what I did to fault find my faulty adjuster on my old e63 that the pin was sticking in as it wouldn’t do a relearn so was throwing an overretarded timing fault on bank 1 inlet camshaft. Solenoid was also faulty which probably didn’t help matters either

 

[badgx]

Too the naked eye yes they are but there is a difference when you open them up as I found stripping the plates for 63 motorsports replacements. You couldn’t fit the exhaust plate to the inlet adjuster as the pin hole didn’t line up if I remember correctly.

As stated for testing purposes it will work actually as that’s exaclty what I did to fault find my faulty adjuster on my old e63 that the pin was sticking in as it wouldn’t do a relearn so was throwing an overretarded timing fault on bank 1 inlet camshaft. Solenoid was also faulty which probably didn’t help matters either

We're talking about swapping around the solenoids to see if it made any difference? The exhaust ones that sit at the top, the plunger could get gritty, which could effect the timing operation, the flow of oil into the camshaft adjuster. Weird both exhaust reading similar numbers

Hope it resolve the issue

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[Wheelspk]

Will me just swapping the connectors be enough for the test?? One cable is longer than the other, but they are enough to reach and connect.. should i swap connectors before i swap the actual solenoid?

This one:

 

[Wheelspk]

Also here are my cam shaft position numbers , they are with in spec tho:

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[badgx]

Zooming into your photo at post 39, looks like your solenoids have been replaced at some point? The security glue is not there, the glue sits at the top of the screw from factory.

Instead of swapping, you may want to pull the top solenoid and feel with finger only to see if the plunger feels smooth and non sticky.

If it has been replaced, then its unlikely to be your solenoids.

 

[badgx]

Sorry buddy, ignore my post, Re camshaft solenoid. This is different issues, not timing. Back to square 1

 

[Wheelspk]

So if there was an issue with the fuel trim the ecu would throw a code, I wouldn’t be chasing a fault that sounds like it isn’t there as you aren’t experiencing any recognisable faults or drive ability issues.
I also wouldn’t believe too much into what a cheap scanner tells you either. Especially on a car like this as you could be again chasing something that is wrong.
Get a proper diagnosis done using a proper diagnostic machine but if there was an issue the ecu would flag it and if it’s passing the emissions test then you could be worrying over nothing

Iv also just noticed in your screen shot that both banks seem to be running exactly the same LTFT % value so would have to be a common fault between both banks and the only thing common between both banks is the inlet manifold but again I would t be reading too much into readings on a cheap scan tool

I have just got my hands on xentry diagnostic tool but i dont know how to see trims in it lol

This cheap tool is just reading what the ecu is seeing never taught it would matter if its a cheap tool or expensive one

Yes both banks show same amount of negative LTFT -13 to -14 on idle but on driving it does down too -7 and goes up and down depending on paddle input

Its not throwing a cel as the thrust is -25 or + 25 ideally it should be +or - 5% could be weak plugs not burning fuel as much as they should but again it shouldn’t effect both banks not all plugs would be weak , maybe the oil is contaminated with fuel as car used to run super rich and gave cel -25 but after changing the MAFs and filters it dropped to -10 to -14ish

I suspected that the injectors might be leaking ao i put in new injectors turned out my old injectors were perfectly fine as well .

I changed the lifters thinking they might be weak but made no difference plus mine older ones were good as well.

Installed a new intake manifold off a parts low mileage car suspecting that manifold might be bad but that made zero difference and i wasted 1100$ on it

Only thing left too change is

Exhaust manifold gasket
Plugs
Oil

Other than that im out of ideas

I could get a tune by which the tuner can adjust the trims to near +- 5 but i want to keep 100% stock

 

[Wheelspk]

Zooming into your photo at post 39, looks like your solenoids have been replaced at some point? The security glue is not there, the glue sits at the top of the screw from factory.

Instead of swapping, you may want to pull the top solenoid and feel with finger only to see if the plunger feels smooth and non sticky.

If it has been replaced, then its unlikely to be your solenoids.

My car is JDM right hand drive maybe the jdm cars dont come with security glue i had the car since new and never changed the solenoid , i

Just one day i got a code for both banks rich on idle and i got this small scanner to see whats going and what code im getting

Car ran rich for a few weeks then some one advised me too check mafs as they never been cleaned since 50k miles

I bought new ones as i my buddy had em in stock oem ones with new mann filters

Never got that code again for both banks being to rich

But i had never stopped looking the trims it bugs me that they hang around -14 when they should be under -10 ideally.

 

[Duff3103]

We're talking about swapping around the solenoids to see if it made any difference? The exhaust ones that sit at the top, the plunger could get gritty, which could effect the timing operation, the flow of oil into the camshaft adjuster. Weird both exhaust reading similar numbers

Hope it resolve the issue

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My mistake iv misunderstood you for the camshaft adjuster itself. you are correct they are the same minus the cable length

I have just got my hands on xentry diagnostic tool but i dont know how to see trims in it lol

This cheap tool is just reading what the ecu is seeing never taught it would matter if its a cheap tool or expensive one

Yes both banks show same amount of negative LTFT -13 to -14 on idle but on driving it does down too -7 and goes up and down depending on paddle input

Its not throwing a cel as the thrust is -25 or + 25 ideally it should be +or - 5% could be weak plugs not burning fuel as much as they should but again it shouldn’t effect both banks not all plugs would be weak , maybe the oil is contaminated with fuel as car used to run super rich and gave cel -25 but after changing the MAFs and filters it dropped to -10 to -14ish

I suspected that the injectors might be leaking ao i put in new injectors turned out my old injectors were perfectly fine as well .

I changed the lifters thinking they might be weak but made no difference plus mine older ones were good as well.

Installed a new intake manifold off a parts low mileage car suspecting that manifold might be bad but that made zero difference and i wasted 1100$ on it

Only thing left too change is

Exhaust manifold gasket
Plugs
Oil

Other than that im out of ideas

I could get a tune by which the tuner can adjust the trims to near +- 5 but i want to keep 100% stock

Im not so sure you actually have a problem tbh if its within spec then theres nothing to worry about. The ecu will fault if the readings are out of spec and are affecting the air/fuel ratio.

The STAR will also highlight actual readings in black if they are out of spec

The oxygen sensors are only adjusting the mixture from what they see and will adjust to suit but if the specs are out if will continue to adjust and once it cannot keep it within spec the ecu will flag a code

This is why i suggested a proper diagnosis as you have bought scan tools, thrown parts at it and asking for help on here but missed the part of a diagnosis from a decent technician which when they know what they are looking for may have been able to suss out within the first hour and saved you throwing unnecessary money at the car

I hope you find the issue you are looking for but genuinely i think your looking for something that currently is not there. No fault codes no issue so as the saying goes if its not broke dont fix it

 

[badgx]

^^^ X2

Smoke test may help identify any potential vacuum leaks but if its running and idling fine and no MIL lights, I think just monitor things for now

 

[Wheelspk]

Okay guys thanks for the help ill keep an eye out plus i have too stop looking at this damn scanner my ocd is getting worse with looking at fuel trims all day , if the car finds anything wrong with it its throw a cel and then ill deal with it ,

Thanks for the help guys cheers and stay blessed!

 

[badgx]

Your welcome friend

 

[Wheelspk]

Hey just did emission test on my car and many things failed.

What are the meaning of the failed stuff and would these be the cause of my negative fuel trims??

 

[Duff3103]

Okay guys thanks for the help ill keep an eye out plus i have too stop looking at this damn scanner my ocd is getting worse with looking at fuel trims all day , if the car finds anything wrong with it its throw a cel and then ill deal with it ,

Thanks for the help guys cheers and stay blessed!

lasted long not looking at that scanner

 

[Wheelspk]

lasted long not looking at that scanner

Hahaha no im gona go go look at xentry now that should tell me what is what.

Coz my car is due for mot and if emissions fail my car is kaput till i get em normal

I just saw these so taught i report back .