Diesel hatch backs.

[st4]

I had a notion of a concept. A large diesel engined hatch/small coupe as a AMG model.

Audi make an S3 with a blown 2 litre petrol and before that there was a 3.2FSi V6 that topped the range. Couldn't they have slotted in a 3.0TDi. It would have been mental fun.

Given that the CLC is W203 based, could they make a CLC 320cdi and maybe turn up the power a bit to make it a CLC 32AMG CDi. Or how about the 420cdi engine in there, 350 economy with 500 performance.

I have therefore put a poll up to see whether my idea is just silly or whether I am not alone in wanting such a model.

PS feel free to say what choice you want, there is no shame in diesel motoring.

 

[st4]

I went for a 420cdi CLC, it would be hilarious.

 

[Howard]

For me big engined sports models have gotta be petrols .... but i've been to the football this afternoon and had a load of beer , so i reserve the right to change my opinion tomorrow .

 

[st4]

For me big engined sports models have gotta be petrols .... but i've been to the football this afternoon and had a load of beer , so i reserve the right to change my opinion tomorrow .

Honestly, I think they are missing a trick with not offering a real range topping diesel in the 1 series/A3/CLC segment. Something 6 cylinder. Imagine a 135D hatch, or a CLC 420cdi. It would be seriously rapid, and sound nice. I saw an A6 3.0Tdi move with real vigerour on the dualers yesterday, now in an A3...

The thought came to me with Audi's range. @ my ex work place one of the directors told me he had a go of an A3 3.2FSi DSG. He isn't really a car fella but said it would be the one sporty car he'd have but the 16mph thing put him off, so a 3.0Tdi A3 would have been just a treat.

 

[richard]

The V8 wont fit without a CLK front end on it (as per C55 (find Tudu's pictures))

But >700Nm of torque in a CLC from the 4.2 diesel would be marvelous !

R

 

[st4]

The V8 wont fit without a CLK front end on it (as per C55 (find Tudu's pictures))

But >700Nm of torque in a CLC from the 4.2 diesel would be marvelous !

R

CLK front end it would be

 

[Dieselman]

There used to be the C30AMG but only in LHD format. I think a potent diesel would damage petrol AMG sales too much so isn't allowed.

 

[st4]

There used to be the C30AMG but only in LHD format. I think a potent diesel would damage petrol AMG sales too much so isn't allowed.

And your point is, with one hand taketh an other giveth...

 

[Dieselman]

The marketing bods are scared of diesel intervention as performance is seen as apetrol thing, and they would no longer require those 'special' AMG petrol engines.

They make massive profit out of niche cars such as AMG, so won't dilute that without a fight.

 

[st4]

The marketing bods are scared of diesel intervention as performance is seen as apetrol thing, and they would no longer require those 'special' AMG petrol engines.

They make massive profit out of niche cars such as AMG, so won't dilute that without a fight.

Shame, maybe a specialist tuner might. I've seen E420cdi vids on you tube and these things move....a smaller car with that engine would be humerous.

I am surprised a high performance diesel would upset things, they'd still have the petrol and it would on paper appear to be the faster car and probably would still be the main seller, but would a high model diesel not have a "halo" effect for lesser models to make up for the "dilution" effect.

Think what Audi is doing with its TDi range. Le-mans wins with an oil burner, Audi R8 range topper is being punted as being a TDi, as is the Q7 range. VW has done it with the Toureg range.

 

[Dieselman]

I am surprised a high performance diesel would upset things, they'd still have the petrol and it would on paper appear to be the faster car and probably would still be the main seller, but would a high model diesel not have a "halo" effect for lesser models to make up for the "dilution" effect.

I think you might need to rethink those comments. A performance diesel would finish petrol sales overnight for Europe as it offers much greater accelleration, tuning potential and economy.
That would then leave the petrols being uneconomuic to manufacture, so prices would escallate, or the product be dropped.

Why do you think Porsche was manipulating customers to back it over the conjestion charge issue, because there are vast profits to be made from selling high power petrol cars. Porsche cars are the most profitable car maker per unit of any sold.

 

[st4]

I think you might need to rethink those comments. A performance diesel would finish petrol sales overnight for Europe as it offers much greater accelleration, tuning potential and economy.
That would then leave the petrols being uneconomuic to manufacture, so prices would escallate, or the product be dropped.

All very true , but fuel prices the way they are would the market not soon be demanding these products, so profits would come from a different source. The petrol products would still reign in the USA.

I read with skeptism but interest Audi's Le Mans engineers in a car mag a few years ago, and his comments were that he felt we were near the peak of petrol engine technology but with diesel fuel there was still some development to go. If you look @ the advances with diesel engines over the last 10 years vs petrols you can see this point of view.

Why do you think Porsche was manipulating customers to back it over the conjestion charge issue, because there are vast profits to be made from selling high power petrol cars. Porsche cars are the most profitable car maker per unit of any sold.

Yes, and I was all for this, but for pol***** reasons. There are, and Porsche's range bar one now breaches into the once proposed 225g/km CO2 limit (i.e.) £25. Even Porsche is going diesel with its Cayenne, and whats the betting that will be the best seller.

In a few years will their be vast profits in selling high power diesels, thats all I wonder.

 

[Mark300SL]

Give me the V8

There is something about the whole small car/big engine thing that really appeals to me.
I would certainly go for a performance diesel, and even more so for a very high performance diesel

 

[Dieselman]

I read with skeptism but interest Audi's Le Mans engineers in a car mag a few years ago, and his comments were that he felt we were near the peak of petrol engine technology but with diesel fuel there was still some development to go. If you look @ the advances with diesel engines over the last 10 years vs petrols you can see this point of view.

Mercedes and VW both said that there was no further progress to be made with petrol engines, and stopped further development, putting it into diesel technology.

Not so sure about he high performance diesels making such profits because diesel is sooooo much easier to extract power from anyone can do it and there is only limited scope for revs so an engine doing 10 billion revs per minute can't be charged extra for.

 

[timskemp]

Dammit I'd go for the V8 diesel.

I'd expect to see more performance diesels in the coming years, VW group are doing very well in GT racing and WTCC / BTCC with diesels, when I had the CLS320CDI no one could believe it was tractor powered.

Hopefully we'll get the V8 diesels in the saloons in the UK soon. I'm sure as well that Brabus would make you a CLC420CDi if you wanted one, though if you can afford Brabus you're gonna get a CLC V12 biturbo...

 

[st4]

Give me the V8

There is something about the whole small car/big engine thing that really appeals to me.
I would certainly go for a performance diesel, and even more so for a very high performance diesel

Aye, MB could make some profit out of him. Seriously if I had the time, skill and money to do an engine transplant, this would be it.

Mercedes and VW both said that there was no further progress to be made with petrol engines, and stopped further development, putting it into diesel technology.

Another reason to buy a derv IMHO, better value for money as the product is more highly researched & focussed on.

 

[Colin_b]

I think you might need to rethink those comments. A performance diesel would finish petrol sales overnight for Europe as it offers much greater accelleration, tuning potential and economy.
That would then leave the petrols being uneconomuic to manufacture, so prices would escallate, or the product be dropped.

Why do you think Porsche was manipulating customers to back it over the conjestion charge issue, because there are vast profits to be made from selling high power petrol cars. Porsche cars are the most profitable car maker per unit of any sold.

Performance diesel? Oxymoron.

Until you drive a BMW 335D. Which is, by any standard, a performance car.

The downside is the fuel consumption. Not significantly better than the petrol equivalent, which with the diesel premium, means the £/mile equation is a bit marginal.

 

[st4]

Dammit I'd go for the V8 diesel.

I'd expect to see more performance diesels in the coming years, VW group are doing very well in GT racing and WTCC / BTCC with diesels

And its got a halo effect for the rest of the VeeDub range.

when I had the CLS320CDI no one could believe it was tractor powered.

I mustn't try the new V6 Cdi, it will just make me want one all the more.

Hopefully we'll get the V8 diesels in the saloons in the UK soon. I'm sure as well that Brabus would make you a CLC420CDi if you wanted one, though if you can afford Brabus you're gonna get a CLC V12 biturbo...

A V12 Biturbo, lovely engine but would it fit, I reckon a V8 is a tight squeeze, but a 12 is really tough. I guess I'd want the car to be reasonable on fuel, something which the V8 CDi would be, but the 12 would be hilariously awful.

 

[Dieselman]

The downside is the fuel consumption.

BM diesels have never been very economical, and the older 'performance' ones were gutless compared to MB engines because they were tuned for power not torque.

 

[timskemp]

Performance diesel? Oxymoron.

Until you drive a BMW 335D. Which is, by any standard, a performance car.

The downside is the fuel consumption. Not significantly better than the petrol equivalent, which with the diesel premium, means the £/mile equation is a bit marginal.

Thing is that the fuel consumption is driver dependant, the 335d uses about the same fuel at cruise as a 330d.