Dpf how does that work then ??

[merc estate]

Hi Gang 2016 220d c class, I read a lot on here about dpf filters, can someone explain to me/us who don't have a clue. So add blue adds to exhaust fumes to help the planet I think and the dpf collects the soot so it dosen't go into the air I think? So if the dpf needs regen I gather that means self clean, How do you know if the car is doing it? How do you know if you have to take it down the motorway for a trip without having some sort of scanner? There does not seem to ba a warning light like my daughters range rover, If you had a star or another scanner do you run the car to regen or does that just reset the info? I am sorry for all the questions but as you can read I haven't got a clue how all this works. Mine is an auto so i thought i would drop a gear on the motorway for a blast to clean it out but after about 15 seconds it changes it back up, do i have to put it in sport for it to keep a lower gear to get the revs up? Or how do you keep a lower gear? Or then again does this not make any difference? PHEW lots of questions but i am sure i am not the only one who's lost with all this stuff. THANKS.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi Gang 2016 220d c class, I read a lot on here about dpf filters, can someone explain to me/us who don't have a clue. So add blue adds to exhaust fumes to help the planet I think and the dpf collects the soot so it dosen't go into the air I think? So if the dpf needs regen I gather that means self clean, How do you know if the car is doing it? How do you know if you have to take it down the motorway for a trip without having some sort of scanner? There does not seem to ba a warning light like my daughters range rover, If you had a star or another scanner do you run the car to regen or does that just reset the info? I am sorry for all the questions but as you can read I haven't got a clue how all this works. Mine is an auto so i thought i would drop a gear on the motorway for a blast to clean it out but after about 15 seconds it changes it back up, do i have to put it in sport for it to keep a lower gear to get the revs up? Or how do you keep a lower gear? Or then again does this not make any difference? PHEW lots of questions but i am sure i am not the only one who's lost with all this stuff. THANKS.

RAC Advice:

How do I maintain a diesel particulate filter?​

The best way to maintain a DPF is to make sure it’s fully able to regenerate itself when it’s full of soot (when the warning light appears).

There are two types of regeneration: passive and active.

Passive regeneration​

Passive regeneration occurs when the car is running at speed on long motorway journeys which allows the exhaust temperature to increase to a higher level and cleanly burn off the excess soot in the filter.

So it is advised that drivers regularly give their diesel vehicle a good 30 to 50 minute run at sustained speed on a motorway or A-road to help clear the filter.

However, not all drivers do this type of driving regularly – which is why manufacturers have designed an alternative form of regeneration.

Active regeneration​

Active regeneration means extra fuel is injected automatically, as part of the vehicle's ECU, when a filter reaches a predetermined limit (normally about 45%) to raise the temperature of the exhaust and burn off the stored soot.

Problems can occur, however, if the journey is too short, as the regeneration process may not complete fully.

If this is the case the warning light will continue to show the filter is still partially blocked.

In which case it should be possible to complete a regeneration cycle and clear the warning light by driving for 10 minutes or so at speeds greater than 40mph.

You will know whether active regeneration is taking place by the following symptoms:

• Engine note change
• Cooling fans running
• A slight increase in fuel consumption
• Increased idle speed
• Deactivation of automatic Stop/Start
• A hot, acrid smell from the exhaust

What do I do if neither active nor passive regeneration work?​

If your warning light continues to stay on, turns red, or additional DPF lights come on, do not leave it too long before getting it checked out.

More damage can be caused this way and what could be an inexpensive fix can become something much more expensive.

Some garages can clean blocked DPFs, in a process called forced regeneration.

This usually costs around £100 and, while it’s not a 100% guaranteed fix, it’s usually successful in removing the excess soot and allowing the DPF to work and automatically regenerate again.

It’s a failure to correctly regenerate that is the cause of most diesel particulate filter issues: they become blocked, which increases exhaust emissions, stifles engine performance and sometimes even puts the car into a restricted ‘limp-home mode’.

On some models the engine may not restart after a number of miles – again, consult your handbook for details.

 

[Benz17]

Would a 2017 W213 have a warning light, I ask because I have never seen a warning light show up on mine.

 

[Tonygw]

Does the stop start de-activate on any merc when active regen is occurring? I have never noticed it?

 

[merc estate]

RAC Advice:

How do I maintain a diesel particulate filter?​

The best way to maintain a DPF is to make sure it’s fully able to regenerate itself when it’s full of soot (when the warning light appears).

There are two types of regeneration: passive and active.

Passive regeneration​

Passive regeneration occurs when the car is running at speed on long motorway journeys which allows the exhaust temperature to increase to a higher level and cleanly burn off the excess soot in the filter.

So it is advised that drivers regularly give their diesel vehicle a good 30 to 50 minute run at sustained speed on a motorway or A-road to help clear the filter.

However, not all drivers do this type of driving regularly – which is why manufacturers have designed an alternative form of regeneration.

Active regeneration​

Active regeneration means extra fuel is injected automatically, as part of the vehicle's ECU, when a filter reaches a predetermined limit (normally about 45%) to raise the temperature of the exhaust and burn off the stored soot.

Problems can occur, however, if the journey is too short, as the regeneration process may not complete fully.

If this is the case the warning light will continue to show the filter is still partially blocked.

In which case it should be possible to complete a regeneration cycle and clear the warning light by driving for 10 minutes or so at speeds greater than 40mph.

You will know whether active regeneration is taking place by the following symptoms:

• Engine note change
• Cooling fans running
• A slight increase in fuel consumption
• Increased idle speed
• Deactivation of automatic Stop/Start
• A hot, acrid smell from the exhaust

What do I do if neither active nor passive regeneration work?​

If your warning light continues to stay on, turns red, or additional DPF lights come on, do not leave it too long before getting it checked out.

More damage can be caused this way and what could be an inexpensive fix can become something much more expensive.

Some garages can clean blocked DPFs, in a process called forced regeneration.

This usually costs around £100 and, while it’s not a 100% guaranteed fix, it’s usually successful in removing the excess soot and allowing the DPF to work and automatically regenerate again.

It’s a failure to correctly regenerate that is the cause of most diesel particulate filter issues: they become blocked, which increases exhaust emissions, stifles engine performance and sometimes even puts the car into a restricted ‘limp-home mode’.

On some models the engine may not restart after a number of miles – again, consult your handbook for details.

Hi Slartibartfast. Thanks for putting up this answer, thats very helpful But do we have a Warning light? if so can you tell me what it is. Thanks again For the reply

 

[Slartibartfast]

Hi Slartibartfast. Thanks for putting up this answer, thats very helpful But do we have a Warning light? if so can you tell me what it is. Thanks again For the reply

Sorry, I don't know. My SL is petrol.

 

[fredfoxuk2]

I don't think Mercs do have a warning light. There's a post on here somewhere from someone that wanted to fit an LED in the drivers door mirror so that when the re-gen was occurring it would light up.
I know Vauxhall used to have a warning light, but turned it off with a software update as people kept taking their cars to the dealer when the light came on - I mean, who reads the manual?

 

[Monkeylegend]

As for holding it in gear, assuming you have the tiptronic function, you can select a gear and hold in that gear until you decide to change up or down with a manual change.

Also on my E Class if you put the gearbox in "S" mode that would hold in the gears longer as well before changing up.

 

[merc estate]

As for holding it in gear, assuming you have the tiptronic function, you can select a gear and hold in that gear until you decide to change up or down with a manual change.

Also on my E Class if you put the gearbox in "S" mode that would hold in the gears longer as well before changing up.

Thanks for the reply, I did have tiptronic on my old E class but i'm not sure the newer C class has it, its the amg premium line, the gear stick is on an indicator stork, it does have a few functions (ha i must be loosing the plot i can't think of the names) Eco, Comfort, sport, sport plus, the other i can't think of independent one (i know thats not the right name) i did it with that one with the paddle shifters but it reverts back to auto after about 10 seconds or so, like it should. Maybe i will try the sport or sport plus. I'm more of a comfort man now, Ha Ha.

 

[Kerabo]

Hi Gang 2016 220d c class, I read a lot on here about dpf filters, can someone explain to me/us who don't have a clue. So add blue adds to exhaust fumes to help the planet I think and the dpf collects the soot so it dosen't go into the air I think? So if the dpf needs regen I gather that means self clean, How do you know if the car is doing it? How do you know if you have to take it down the motorway for a trip without having some sort of scanner? There does not seem to ba a warning light like my daughters range rover, If you had a star or another scanner do you run the car to regen or does that just reset the info? I am sorry for all the questions but as you can read I haven't got a clue how all this works. Mine is an auto so i thought i would drop a gear on the motorway for a blast to clean it out but after about 15 seconds it changes it back up, do i have to put it in sport for it to keep a lower gear to get the revs up? Or how do you keep a lower gear? Or then again does this not make any difference? PHEW lots of questions but i am sure i am not the only one who's lost with all this stuff. THANKS.

I don’t know for sure on Mercedes but other vehicles (Vauxhall) I have worked on several things happen.
it needs heat so needs to be under load. Engine fan comes on. Rear screen heater even though it don’t show, so through the charging it loads the engine. It also over fuels to burn off the carbon. You can see you shown mpg drop while thus happens. On the Vauxhall you can make it do this on a computer taking 25 min or so.
Pretty much the same with add blue. Diluted animal urine. I am talking trucks now but I guess a car us the same. First you need about 10 miles under load. Then it starts to inject the add blue just in front if the filter. We could see it happen from the laptop. You may see trucks putting out like a steam from the exhaust that’s the Add blue working.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

Thanks for the reply, I did have tiptronic on my old E class but i'm not sure the newer C class has it, its the amg premium line, the gear stick is on an indicator stork, it does have a few functions (ha i must be loosing the plot i can't think of the names) Eco, Comfort, sport, sport plus, the other i can't think of independent one (i know thats not the right name) i did it with that one with the paddle shifters but it reverts back to auto after about 10 seconds or so, like it should. Maybe i will try the sport or sport plus. I'm more of a comfort man now, Ha Ha.

There are cheap tunes available to delete DPF from the system as well. Opt for it. There will be a percentage for it and another set against it. It's your call, pertaining to DPF and Ad blue since lacking in my diesel, I don't have this concern, but had it been there I would have software deleted them via a tuner.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

There are cheap tunes available to delete DPF from the system as well. Opt for it. There will be a percentage for it and another set against it. It's your call, pertaining to DPF and Ad blue since lacking in my diesel, I don't have this concern, but had it been there I would have software deleted them via a tuner.

There is a famous tuner in Birmingham, I have seen posts here about him. He charges 50 GBP for a DPF delete, ask him for Ad blue and EGR delete as well. EGR may require the hardware block I wrote about earlier to you. Since 2015 I have no problems with my deletions. Read more on the links I sent you and take your decision. Unless it is an official word from a certified technician from Daimler, or a certified workshop who deals in just Daimler vehicles listen to them. People who own a few cars and get their tuners from here and there are not your source. You do your own research and decide. Everyone will have their opinion, and they are not any authority on what is best for you. 4 cars does not equate to experience or worldly net worth. You need someone with 50 cars of tuning experience who removes such things for customers.

 

[Bellow]

Unless it is an official word from someone resident in this country who understands both the laws and traffic conditions.....

 

[Tuercas viejas]

Well from someone who ISN'T a resident but lives in a state that has stringent rules about diesel emissions AND in country that has has successfully sued MB to their cost of 1,5 BILLION dollars for installing cheap ****d components on their vehicles and what I call Blurrtech..

The DPF, the nomenclature says Diesel Particulate FILTER --Oh OK so its a filter and the material has been traditionally made of a substance called zeolites.
Now just like an air filter, oil filter, or fuel, it gets plugged up with what its filtering, in this case carbon particles.
OK got that ?
So it has finite life and it has an additional feature that will clean itself over a varied period before all this cleaning activity plugs itself up with a by product called ash .

So how does it know when to clean itself.
A sensor called a differential pressure sensor which is reading the pressure differences across the filter from in and out and the filter gets plugged up, so the resistance to flow increases, becoming flash signal. saying CLEAN ME

How does it clean itself?
Two ways as the nice RAC man has stated.
You blasting along on the motorway creates enough heat to burn it all off to a point, exhaust temps in excess of 450 to 750 Celsius .
But say you are a putzing old duffer who just goes to the grocery store daily and church on Sundays and the missus takes the kids to school, so short trip cycles?
Well the system knows that being a Bosch system, so it increase the fuel injection cycles to inject a small amount of additional fuel into the exhaust stroke heating up the exhaust gases to do the "Hoovering", by artificially burning off that carbon burning to ash activity & sometimes the glow plugs are activated to give it a kick up the **** and to get hot instantly .
Now I see big truck mention like say a Humming Cummins perhaps !
Well a bit of American ingenuity here !
Don't change the injection like those Bosch Germans blokes have done say Columbus Indiana , but simply inject a small amount of atomized fuel into the "zorst" system aft of the turbo and set the bloody DPF on fire internally, a controlled burn so to speak.
In both cases the ash will blow out of the exhaust by gas flow and some will get stuck on the DPF (filter ) and stay there & that means problems ahead ONE DAY!.

So now every school kid who is good at science world wide will state "You dumb bums MB et al, you lot are creating enough heat doing all this heat related cleaning, that you are pumping gobs of NOx into the atmosphere with these temperatures above 450c. and poisonings us all !
So in 2010, drum roll , drum roll enter the AdBlue Saviour knight from the Bosch roundtable in Stuttgart to the rescue! He now injects an industrial urea liquid into the DPF, neutralizing the harmful by products at the same time as cleaning it !

So what can go wrong with that we ask?
Lots of things !.
If the engine is running incorrectly and an active fault is present it wont re-gen, system will plug up, engine stifles itself and won't run. Car becomes a lawn ornament !
The ash by product becomes so heavy in the DPF (Filter) its time to change it . Or it plugs itself up. engine is stifled. lawn ornament time! Spend money lots of it!
Corner garage bloke says Oh I will force regen for yah mate!
OK so it might fix it once or twice, but keep doing it, and the heat produced will bugger up the filter matrix, engine stifles itself, its lawn ornament time!
But what about the ash that stuff won't re-gen!
DPF stays clogged up lawn ornament time. Spend lottsa money to fix
Now the biggy !
LACK OF TRAINING FOR THE TRADE.
It has taken years to understand how all this works in fact we are still learning!
Here in the USA FORD bless 'em in 2010 conducted a whole series of FREE familiarization and repair technique pointers for any service tech with Bosch Adblue systems.
Ford's system have largely been far more reliable than MB systems both being Bosch & share the same system.
In comparison MB did Nowt mate!
BUT thanks to Ford training programs we started fixing errant MB right out of the gate when the MB dealer techs knew SFA about how it worked from day one . Crazy !
Tuercas viejas

 

[Numair Aidroos]

Well from someone who ISN'T a resident but lives in a state that has stringent rules about diesel emissions AND in country that has has successfully sued MB to their cost of 1,5 BILLION dollars for installing cheap ****d components on their vehicles and what I call Blurrtech..

The DPF, the nomenclature says Diesel Particulate FILTER --Oh OK so its a filter and the material has been traditionally made of a substance called zeolites.
Now just like an air filter, oil filter, or fuel, it gets plugged up with what its filtering, in this case carbon particles.
OK got that ?
So it has finite life and it has an additional feature that will clean itself over a varied period before all this cleaning activity plugs itself up with a by product called ash .

So how does it know when to clean itself.
A sensor called a differential pressure sensor which is reading the pressure differences across the filter from in and out and the filter gets plugged up, so the resistance to flow increases, becoming flash signal. saying CLEAN ME

How does it clean itself?
Two ways as the nice RAC man has stated.
You blasting along on the motorway creates enough heat to burn it all off to a point, exhaust temps in excess of 450 to 750 Celsius .
But say you are a putzing old duffer who just goes to the grocery store daily and church on Sundays and the missus takes the kids to school, so short trip cycles?
Well the system knows that being a Bosch system, so it increase the fuel injection cycles to inject a small amount of additional fuel into the exhaust stroke heating up the exhaust gases to do the "Hoovering", by artificially burning off that carbon burning to ash activity & sometimes the glow plugs are activated to give it a kick up the **** and to get hot instantly .
Now I see big truck mention like say a Humming Cummins perhaps !
Well a bit of American ingenuity here !
Don't change the injection like those Bosch Germans blokes have done say Columbus Indiana , but simply inject a small amount of atomized fuel into the "zorst" system aft of the turbo and set the bloody DPF on fire internally, a controlled burn so to speak.
In both cases the ash will blow out of the exhaust by gas flow and some will get stuck on the DPF (filter ) and stay there & that means problems ahead ONE DAY!.

So now every school kid who is good at science world wide will state "You dumb bums MB et al, you lot are creating enough heat doing all this heat related cleaning, that you are pumping gobs of NOx into the atmosphere with these temperatures above 450c. and poisonings us all !
So in 2010, drum roll , drum roll enter the AdBlue Saviour knight from the Bosch roundtable in Stuttgart to the rescue! He now injects an industrial urea liquid into the DPF, neutralizing the harmful by products at the same time as cleaning it !

So what can go wrong with that we ask?
Lots of things !.
If the engine is running incorrectly and an active fault is present it wont re-gen, system will plug up, engine stifles itself and won't run. Car becomes a lawn ornament !
The ash by product becomes so heavy in the DPF (Filter) its time to change it . Or it plugs itself up. engine is stifled. lawn ornament time! Spend money lots of it!
Corner garage bloke says Oh I will force regen for yah mate!
OK so it might fix it once or twice, but keep doing it, and the heat produced will bugger up the filter matrix, engine stifles itself, its lawn ornament time!
But what about the ash that stuff won't re-gen!
DPF stays clogged up lawn ornament time. Spend lottsa money to fix
Now the biggy !
LACK OF TRAINING FOR THE TRADE.
It has taken years to understand how all this works in fact we are still learning!
Here in the USA FORD bless 'em in 2010 conducted a whole series of FREE familiarization and repair technique pointers for any service tech with Bosch Adblue systems.
Ford's system have largely been far more reliable than MB systems both being Bosch & share the same system.
In comparison MB did Nowt mate!
BUT thanks to Ford training programs we started fixing errant MB right out of the gate when the MB dealer techs knew SFA about how it worked from day one . Crazy !
Tuercas viejas

Best Answer.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

In reference to laws, and traffic conditions. Does not take a resident to know it. Laws are written and passed by a legislative assembly available as public records when statutes are enforced. Traffic conditions does not take much time to study. If such was the case, then in UK, only UK residents would produce cars, no imports would be allowed. No offense but the quality has never been a mark from UK, design and aesthetics 'yes'. Jaguars since the 1960s were known for notorious failures.

And engineering is not the same as RESIDENTs well versed in laws and traffic conditions. That is what lawyers (solicitors) are for. So basically you are being advised to follow a solicitor from your area, not an engineer.

Not my concern, but just a follow up without any offensive content and actual facts.

Which resident knows the laws pertaining to Motor Vehicles ACT and all the surrounding traffic conditions ranging from pot holes to choke points? Road and Highway authority would, so there you go, there is your answer.

Land Rover Jaguar Group is owned and operated by TATA from INDIA. Ford played a short stint.

There have been some gems out of UK, but they are not in production at present.

 

[Smiley]

I think Bellow's point was that you were recommending deletion of emissions control systems and that it would render the car illegal for use in the UK.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

'Suggestion' is not the same as 'recommendation'. We are in collaboration of ideas on 2 separate posts. It's a continuation here.
Are you the said member's solicitor, guardian, public relations specialist, or withhold a General Power of Attorney to act on their behalf? Seems like there are quite a few keeping up with this trend.

So are all Cars with the deleted options via software mods, not getting their MOT certification? Are MOT stalls, going deep in to the engine bay and checking the EGR valves being blocked via customized hardware?

Why do you need an explanation to posts for OP? I am fine, a Denver resident does not have any problem, so is the OP. And why are you coming to the rescue of another member, in agreement or disagreement with another?
Let them do their own bidding. This is a gang mentality and pack behavior. Very rudimentary in nature.

You know under the copyright infringement laws even modifying the ECU for tuner files is illegal. Should we report these members with their 4 cars?

 

[markjay]

PDF deletion will render the car illegal in the UK. It also has the potential of invalidating the insurance policy on the car.

The firms that carry this out in the UK will have a clause in the very-small-print section that says that the modification is for 'use off-road or on private land only', which sort of transfers the legal liability from the garage to the owner (similar to how you can buy Halogen to HID or LED conversion kits in the UK with the small print saying 'for off-road use only' - as if...).

The reason some owners do it, is that it's a mod that's difficult to detect, especially if the DPF is cut open and gutted, then welded and fitted back to the car (as opposed to having it removed completely), meaning that on a practical level the likelihood of actually getting caught is quite low, so they chance it and mostly get away with it.

The situation in India might be different - possibly the DPF can legally be gutted or removed, I don't know.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

PDF deletion will render the car illegal in the UK. It also has the potential of invalidating the insurance policy on the car.

The firms that carry this out in the UK will have a clause in the very-small-print section that says that the modification is for 'use off-road or on private land only', which sort of transfers the legal liability from the garage to the owner (similar to how you can buy Halogen to HID or LED conversion kits in the UK with the small print saying 'for off-road use only' - as if...).

The reason some owners do it, is that it's a mod that's difficult to detect, especially if the DPF is cut open and gutted, then welded and fitted back to the car (as opposed to having it removed completely), meaning that on a practical level the likelihood of actually getting caught is quite low, so they chance it and mostly get away with it.

The situation in India might be different - possibly the DPF can legally be gutted or removed, I don't know.

Forget this matter, he knows the pros and cons.
Lets talk about your command projects. I have all the options from the 500, except the engine, 2nd sun roof and turbos. Now I want to replace the rear screens with IPADS and integrate them with the car speakers. And Without any damage I'd like Android auto and CAR play in the front screen without that touch screen replacement, I need to continue with the MB screen.