Flat battery - cannot open boot

[Londonscottish]

On a family car, it'll be too much sitting on the drive AND short runs that barely scratch the surface of putting enough charge back in.

For a "collector" like Swotty, or a used car dealer, the answer is to charge or condition regularly, and maybe even trickle charge. Walk into any big private collection, and you'll see CTEK's and connectors hanging around to keep batteries topped up.

For the family car / garden ornament, the answer is to just charge it up if you've left a car pretty much unused for a month or two. It sounds like a faff but it's better than being caught out by a flat battery and better than just throwing batteries away every four years.

I'm "lucky" in that I do 12,000 a year across my three cars these days, so it's less of an issue for me, but I do consciously switch cars so that one doesn't get left unused for more than three weeks. Not just for the battery, but just to keep the whole car "limbered up:" from oils to tyres etc etc.

Yes, I hear you. After covid I bought a trickle charger and plug the Merc in now and again. It will often sit for five days without moving. This gets compounded by me unlocking and locking several times to get things out - that hits the batteyr each and every time. And then, if it only has two or three short trips on a weekend, that's even worse for the battery. It can follow that pattern for a month or two before I find and excuse to leave London for some reason or other.

 

[Londonscottish]

How's your little Italian flirtation working out? Is she keeping you "limber?"

Well it was off the road for two weeks in Dec as the cold weather mean the ePAS wouldn't work. Same in January. Earlier this month I managed to get it going and round to the garage where they stripped it and send the whole column/pump/ECU assembly off for a refurb. It's either this or paying Fiat £3k for the part. Plus labour. Of which there would actually be two lots of course - theirs and my local garage's.

Amyway, after ten days Refurb Place 1 said they couldn't crack the software/firmware and told the garage to arrange shipment back. Thanks guys.....

The next time the garage used the part number not just the reg number and Refurb Place 2 said "don't send it, we can't do that version either".

I then found a unit on Autodoc. It's an exchange (£1,500 for the unit sent over, £400 refund for the old one) but my garage refused. They've had horrible problems with this sort of thing post Brexit and have been hit with big additional bills/return items stuck in limbo, etc etc etc . A big fat no from them.

Yesterday, my wife actually suggested driving to Germany to take the old one to AutoDoc and pick up the new one. We were genuinely thinking of this (good excuse for a long weekend and a bit of Vmax and still way cheaper then Fiat part) when a WhatsApp came through from the garage saying that Refurb Place 3 say they can do it. It's being picked up this morning. And we've booked a long weekend in Lisbon in April instead.

Hopefully, at the end of the day, I can get it all done for around £1k. This is on top of the £700 the clutch hydraulics cost me this time last year. Very annoying on a very low mileage (20k) "economy" car and more than I've spent on non-consumables on either of my E500s the entire time I owned either of them.

Fingers crossed I'll get it back in a week or so.

Meanwhile, noone's talking to me any more on the Fiat Forum. I expressed my frustration more that once and it seems you're only allowed to say nice things about "cute little 500's and Pandas". I think I've got every right to be aggrieved. I haven't had so much hassle with one car in my life ever. It's one of the reasons I like this forum. You're allowed to like a brand, a model or a particular car but still have a balanced debate about running one, warts and all. I do like bombing around in the 500 and I do think it's a tremendous piece of industrial design but there's no getting away from the fact that (i) it has seriously shat the bed twice now and that (ii) Fiat parts prices and general support are atrocious.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well it was off the road for two weeks in Dec as the cold weather mean the ePAS wouldn't work. Same in January. Earlier this month I managed to get it going and round to the garage where they stripped it and send the whole column/pump/ECU assembly off for a refurb. It's either this or paying Fiat £3k for the part. Plus labour. Of which there would actually be two lots of course - theirs and my local garage's.

Amyway, after ten days Refurb Place 1 said they couldn't crack the software/firmware and told the garage to arrange shipment back. Thanks guys.....

The next time the garage used the part number not just the reg number and Refurb Place 2 said "don't send it, we can't do that version either".

I then found a unit on Autodoc. It's an exchange (£1,500 for the unit sent over, £400 refund for the old one) but my garage refused. They've had horrible problems with this sort of thing post Brexit and have been hit with big additional bills/return items stuck in limbo, etc etc etc . A big fat no from them.

Yesterday, my wife actually suggested driving to Germany to take the old one to AutoDoc and pick up the new one. We were genuinely thinking of this (good excuse for a long weekend and a bit of Vmax and still way cheaper then Fiat part) when a WhatsApp came through from the garage saying that Refurb Place 3 say they can do it. It's being picked up this morning. And we've booked a long weekend in Lisbon in April instead.

Hopefully, at the end of the day, I can get it all done for around £1k. This is on top of the £700 the clutch hydraulics cost me this time last year. Very annoying on a very low mileage (20k) "economy" car and more than I've spent on non-consumables on either of my E500s the entire time I owned either of them.

Fingers crossed I'll get it back in a week or so.

Meanwhile, noone's talking to me any more on the Fiat Forum. I expressed my frustration more that once and it seems you're only allowed to say nice things about "cute little 500's and Pandas". I think I've got every right to be aggrieved. I haven't had so much hassle with one car in my life ever. It's one of the reasons I like this forum. You're allowed to like a brand, a model or a particular car but still have a balanced debate about running one, warts and all. I do like bombing around in the 500 and I do think it's a tremendous piece of industrial design but there's no getting away from the fact that (i) it has seriously shat the bed twice now and that (ii) Fiat parts prices and general support are atrocious.

Sheesh. I'm glad I asked.

From your earlier notes, I thought they implied that you were spending all your time with your new flirtation.

My Brother in Law loved his FIAT, but every time I saw him he had some fresh saga about breakages, bits, and delays.

.

 

[Swotty]

Sheesh. I'm glad I asked.

From your earlier notes, I thought they implied that you were spending all your time with your new flirtation.

My Brother in Law loved his FIAT, but every time I saw him he had some fresh saga about breakages, bits, and delays.

.

Sadly I can echo that. Our Fiat Panda was new in 2005 and only has just under 40K miles. Serviced annually and cambelt changed every 5 years as per.

4 years ago needed a new clutch according to the Fiat dealer. (She's the robotised auto with tiptronic shift). 1000 euros and now the problem has returned. Even checking the oil in the gearbox is a garage job. I reckon an actuator has gone but even the guys on the Panda forums say it's a pig of a job. The forums are also full of tales of woe for Italian gearboxes.

The radio started to come on whenever it liked and drained the battery (the "b" word again!) on one occasion. The Fiat garage fitted an inline fuse and now, after a couple of years, it doesn't work at all (fuse is O.K.).

It used to be a great little runabout but it's now just unreliable and the cost of repairs is uneconomic weighed against its market value (not much!).

 

[Londonscottish]

Sadly I can echo that. Our Fiat Panda was new in 2005 and only has just under 40K miles. Serviced annually and cambelt changed every 5 years as per.

4 years ago needed a new clutch according to the Fiat dealer. (She's the robotised auto with tiptronic shift). 1000 euros and now the problem has returned. Even checking the oil in the gearbox is a garage job. I reckon an actuator has gone but even the guys on the Panda forums say it's a pig of a job. The forums are also full of tales of woe for Italian gearboxes.

The radio started to come on whenever it liked and drained the battery (the "b" word again!) on one occasion. The Fiat garage fitted an inline fuse and now, after a couple of years, it doesn't work at all (fuse is O.K.).

It used to be a great little runabout but it's now just unreliable and the cost of repairs is uneconomic weighed against its market value (not much!).

There was a 500 with that box stuck in the garage for months with a failed duologic box or whatever its called. The owner refused to pay the £2.5k that Fiat wanted and eventually found a specialist to refurb it.

How the garage owner must have laughed when that car finally left only to be replaced by mine....

 

[Smiley]

I have a trickle charger on one or other of the cars all of the time. The battery life on little used cars can be extended to 10 yrs + by using a trickle charger. The charger pays for itself just through extended battery life without taking into account all the other problems of letting a battery go completely flat on anything post about 2000.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I raised your FIAT 500 saga with a neighbour who has had a series of 500's. Five, in fact. The usual 3 year life saga.

He's as unmechanical as you could find so I expected a few frustrations. But no, his experience, on brand new 500's has been complete satisfaction. No issues at all on his purely around town usage.

As long term German car owner I found it.... very interesting

 

[Londonscottish]

I raised your FIAT 500 saga with a neighbour who has had a series of 500's. Five, in fact. The usual 3 year life saga.

He's as unmechanical as you could find so I expected a few frustrations. But no, his experience, on brand new 500's has been complete satisfaction. No issues at all on his purely around town usage.

As long term German car owner I found it.... very interesting

Well they're clearly built down to a price - you can tell that immediately by some of the interior plastics as soon as you get it. The margins on cars at this end of the price spectrum are wafer thin.

To be fair they don't really have a long list of known faults; the door handles can break but that's a cheap fix. The beam axle at the back and the spring mounts can rust - sounds familiar? The leaking clutch hydraulics seems to be quite common. That's annoying; clearly something that could have been improved but hasn't been. And the ePAS is known to fail - hence a huge cottage industry that has sprung up to refurb the motor/ecu.

What's clear, though, is that behind the scenes the whole Fiat/Stellantis parts operation is one massive clusterfuck. They guy who looks after my cars says that the logistics are totally screwed and the prices are increasingly eye-watering. There was another 500 in the garage for which he'd been waiting for a seat release handle. In the end the owner bought his own replacement from Italy and had it shipped over because noone could get a straight answer from the parts operation. He told me it's got so bad that people have started stealing them to break them for spares. Fiat 500's!

Oh well, so nothing's changed since the last Italian car I bought in 1989; good looking, charismatic and fun to drive but flawed and with a bare bones support operation. Plus ca change.......

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Well they're clearly built down to a price - you can tell that immediately by some of the interior plastics as soon as you get it. The margins on cars at this end of the price spectrum are wafer thin.

To be fair they don't really have a long list of known faults; the door handles can break but that's a cheap fix. The beam axle at the back and the spring mounts can rust - sounds familiar? The leaking clutch hydraulics seems to be quite common. That's annoying; clearly something that could have been improved but hasn't been. And the ePAS is known to fail - hence a huge cottage industry that has sprung up to refurb the motor/ecu.

What's clear, though, is that behind the scenes the whole Fiat/Stellantis parts operation is one massive clusterfuck. They guy who looks after my cars says that the logistics are totally screwed and the prices are increasingly eye-watering. There was another 500 in the garage for which he'd been waiting for a seat release handle. In the end the owner bought his own replacement from Italy and had it shipped over because noone could get a straight answer from the parts operation. He told me it's got so bad that people have started stealing them to break them for spares. Fiat 500's!

Oh well, so nothing's changed since the last Italian car I bought in 1989; good looking, charismatic and fun to drive but flawed and with a bare bones support operation. Plus ca change.......

Thanks for taking the time to share. Good, kind of, to know.

It makes me wonder what's going on behind the whole Stellantis thing, after their incredibly profitable year. Is it more siloed than they portray? Who knows?

 

[Londonscottish]

Thanks for taking the time to share. Good, kind of, to know.

It makes me wonder what's going on behind the whole Stellantis thing, after their incredibly profitable year. Is it more siloed than they portray? Who knows?

I wouldn't be at surprised is part of their modus operandi is to strip costs out of the aftercare part of the business and double the parts prices. I had a pay a stupid amount last year from the clutch stuff which was little more than a couple of feet of pipework, a valve and a slave cylinder. It was £400 or something. The fact that they want £3,000 for part of a steering assembly is talking the ripping piss. What are they paying for that on the production line? £150? £200?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I wouldn't be at surprised is part of their modus operandi is to strip costs out of the aftercare part of the business and double the parts prices. I had a pay a stupid amount last year from the clutch stuff which was little more than a couple of feet of pipework, a valve and a slave cylinder. It was £400 or something. The fact that they want £3,000 for part of a steering assembly is talking the ripping piss. What are they paying for that on the production line? £150? £200?

The profit has always been in the extras and aftercare part of the business. Tavares seems to have produced money out of a hat after the merger of PSA and FCA. I suspect their eyes are on "Group synergies," financial engineering, and China, rather than customer satisfaction.

But then who isn't focussing on China these days - consider these dodgy MB & BMW models like the 3 and 5 GT's which have failed miserably in Europe and the States. (Says he, politely not mentioning any MB models)

 

[Swotty]

Oh well, back to square one.

Lifted the carpets, took out the polystyrene pad and unscrewed & lifted out the metal cover.

The earth point is there but no battery cable/junction as shown on t'internet. Unscrewed the side trim and even lifted the insulation/sound deadening, but definitely nothing to connect the live to. There is only what seems to be an earth connection for a couple of wires coming from under the front seat carpet, albeit light brown in colour.

On a US forum someone has said to unscrew a rear number plate light and connect a battery to the live connection, saying this should provide the wherewithal to use the key fob to open the boot. Can't see that working myself.

Does anyone have a view on this ... and any other suggestions, please?

Many thanks.

 

[m80]

I haven't read all of the thread,
can you get to the starter and apply jump leads to the heavy feed to that. That will be jumping the battery.

 

[Swotty]

I haven't read all of the thread,
can you get to the starter and apply jump leads to the heavy feed to that. That will be jumping the battery.

Possibly - have a trolley jack.

I'm not fussed about trying to start the car - have just ordered a new battery - but just supplying enough juice via a slave battery to get the boot to open.

 

[E55BOF]

On a US forum someone has said to unscrew a rear number plate light and connect a battery to the live connection, saying this should provide the wherewithal to use the key fob to open the boot. Can't see that working myself.
.

That should work; it doesn't need much. You'll need a multimeter to be sure which is the live terminal (when there's charge in the battery...), though.

 

[Swotty]

That should work; it doesn't need much. You'll need a multimeter to be sure which is the live terminal (when there's charge in the battery...), though.

Thanks, I'll give that a go!

 

[Trickythemerc]

Can't see that one working as the number plate lights would only pass current as far as the light switch. Unless as I now suspect it would go via the rear SAM unit, so yes it could in fact work. As already stated correct polarity would need to be established before attempting this fix.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Its easy to get power to the battery...if you have a towbar and its wiring!!!

 

[Swotty]

Thanks guys .... no towbar ... just not appropriate for a CL!

 

[Will]

The battery is in the boot on the 215, OSR IIRC. You should be able to locate the thick cable that runs from the front of the car to this area.

Not sure what you found earlier but I seem to remember on older cars eg W202s it went from the passenger footwell area, but you might be better to check under the carpet or rear seat even. There will be some plastic trunking that the cables are run within.

Good luck