• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

Help Me Save This 2.3-16!!!!!

N

neilrr

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
7,421
Car
Various.
As some of you may have noticed I like W201s, especially the Cosworth variety.

I bought the car in this thread http://z14.invisionfree.com/mercedes_190_club/index.php?showtopic=5075&st=0#entry10126852

I would very much like to fix it and use it. The owners were open and straightforward in their dealings & it appears to have been cherished. I think it's an honest car which hasn't been abused, modified or wrecked.

It has v. good spec for a UK car, AC, electric heated full leather seats, sunroof, OTG, vanity mirrors, fire extinguisher - some of which were seriously expensive options back then in the UK. In fact it has everything which was available on a manual car except airbags & memory seats. it's only done just over 100K miles and, the obvious issues aside, is really nice.

I'd welcome opinions on how to proceed with the engine work or be very glad to hear form anyone with the appropriate bits to fix it. 12 of the 16 valves are bent & one piston ha been removed by the owner's Mercedes indy for inspection. The seller is sure every bit of the car is still there.

Would dropping a 2.5-16 engine be a viable plan? Would installing a 2.5-16 head with a duplex chain work?

Many TIA.
 
Last edited:
How are you mechanical skills? are you going to do the work yourself?

Not sure on using bits from the 2.5 but putting a 2.5 in would work if you can get an engine at a reasonable price...

I would start by getting the parts you need, ie. new set of valves, pistons, gasket kit and get the head skimmed etc. Maybe remove the rest of the block, get the crank checked and change the bottom end bearings too, then start putting the engine back togeather :)

This looks like a really good project but take your time with it, get it running and mot'd...;) Then you can do bodywork and the other stuff as you go along, good luck, keep us posted :bannana:
 
Thanks Nick.

I'm still mulling over the different ways to do this, from rebuilding the existing head (which, I've discovered, can be done with v. slightly modified Peugeot 306 valves at 1/8 the cost of the MB oem ones) to using a junkyard head, to putting on a duplex chain 2.5-16 head to just dropping in a complete engine. I've got several irons in the fire on UK engines & heads.

Still gathering info & trying to get a clear idea of cost versus benefits.

ADY, I'm no mechanic.
 
Neil,

If you are to put a duplex timing chain set up on the early 2.3 you are going to have to change all the timing components to suit, ie sprockets, tensioner etc etc.

About a grand in parts there alone! :eek:

Will
 
Hi Neil
You may have been better off buying one that was done...:)
It sounds like it is going to cost a fair bit to get going, i would use Mercedes parts only, the Valves will be more expensive for a reason, you get what you pay for in this world...

Please dont skimp on the internals of the engine, its a project take your time...;)
Get you self a haynes manual and learn :D its great fun and satisfying...
 
You could be a bit radical and transplant an E320 6 cylinder engine and 5 speed auto. That would a cheaper way to emulate the rare AMG 3.2 6 cylinder 190 model of the early 90s. It would loose the originality of the car but you would get a more powerful car thats easier to live with on adaily basis. Just an IDEA.
 
grober said:
You could be a bit radical and transplant an E320 6 cylinder engine and 5 speed auto. That would a cheaper way to emulate the rare AMG 3.2 6 cylinder 190 model of the early 90s. It would loose the originality of the car but you would get a more powerful car thats easier to live with on adaily basis. Just an IDEA.
Click to expand...

That is a very good idea :D the problem i see is that Neil will have to pay someone to do most of the work! as he said he is no mechanic, so could be expensive??
 
Would that 6 cylinder engine & the auto tranny (car has a Getrag manual now) just drop in? The engine bay, firewalls - engine cavity - is different on the 16 valve 190Es from the standard version.

Would it be much heavier and make the car unbalanced? The Cosworth's main strength (IMHO) is the chassis and it's balance.

I know of a man named John Coates who is meticulously building a copy of an AMG 3.2 190E. It is a big job, but he wants an exact replica and a perfect one at that.
 
Neil,

Not quite on topic - but your dedication to 190e cars deserves a round of applause. :-)
 
neilrr said:
Would that 6 cylinder engine & the auto tranny (car has a Getrag manual now) just drop in? The engine bay, firewalls - engine cavity - is different on the 16 valve 190Es from the standard version.

Would it be much heavier and make the car unbalanced? The Cosworth's main strength (IMHO) is the chassis and it's balance.

I know of a man named John Coates who is meticulously building a copy of an AMG 3.2 190E. It is a big job, but he wants an exact replica and a perfect one at that.
Click to expand...

I can't swear to this but I think the AMG 3.2 was a bored?stroked? version of the SINGLE CAM 2.6 engine found in the standard 6 cylinder 190s of the day. The only thing changed in the 2.6 engine compartment is the front radiator assembly /ducting /slam panel as far as I know. the extra engine length being accomodated forwards rather than back. If you used the 320 engine plus 5 speed autobox it might be a bit bigger but I guess you could still use the 5 speed getrag box if you wanted. The weight distribution would be a little further forward with the six but I havn't heard too many complaints about the 2.6 190s handling and I doubt the engines would be too dissimilar in weight. There is a cracking post on this somewhere complete with pics but I'm damned if I can find it.:confused:

FOUND:- this post on the190 forum http://www.mercedes190.co.uk/
its underTECHNICAL--engine,gearbox,diff and exhaust---engine--started my engine swop. Its about putting a 320 6 into a 190. and heres a couple of pics courtesy of that forum

I appreciate from what you said that you want to stick to the original 4 cylinder 16v engine to keep the car original so fair enough. :D Its just interesting to see whats possible.;)
 

Attachments

  • BRABUS190SIXc.gif
    BRABUS190SIXc.gif
    84.5 KB · Views: 254
Last edited:
Just these instructions
1. go to http://www.mercedes190.co.uk/

2. look under--TECHNICAL--engine,gearbox,diff and exhaust---engine--started my engine swop. (post title)

Unfortunately I cant get a direct link to the post to work. But there are several posts on the subject if you look in the "technical" section post titles or do a search.
 
Last edited:
IMHO the value of a Cosworth is in being a Cosworth. However tempting a 3.2 24-valve 190 would be - and I'd be seriously tempted, believe me - I wouldn't do that with a Cossie, I'd start with a 190 2.6

Labour costs tend to kill conversions. The quickest way of dealing with a bad engine is to throw a new one in. There are always lots of duplicated parts, so no need to go buying bits, you can sit the two side-by-side so you can see what's there and what's not and the job doesn't appear to have no end in sight

I'd put a second-hand 2.3 (or 2.5) engine in there then drive it till you decide what to do with it. It should be do-able over a weekend with an engine hoist and a knowledgeable mate

I've got a hoist..

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk
 
I've actually got a 190E 2.6 already amongst my stable (lol!) of w201s. It has just turned over 140K & I was already thinking about putting an M103 3.0 in it when the day comes. It's the ideal everyday car for me, apart from the fact that since I got this one my neighbours think I've become a pimp or a crack dealer.

I have a couple of irons in the fire as far as restoring the Cosworth to it's former glory goes. Update soon hopefully.

cotm.jpg
 
That looks really good, not a huge fan of 201's usally but i do like that, i have an M103 3.0l here but the bottom end bearings need changing :(
 
neilrr said:
As some of you may have noticed I like W201s, especially the Cosworth variety.

I bought the car in this thread http://z14.invisionfree.com/mercedes_190_club/index.php?showtopic=5075&st=0#entry10126852

I would very much like to fix it and use it. The owners were open and straightforward in their dealings & it appears to have been cherished. I think it's an honest car which hasn't been abused, modified or wrecked.

It has v. good spec for a UK car, AC, electric heated full leather seats, sunroof, OTG, vanity mirrors, fire extinguisher - some of which were seriously expensive options back then in the UK. In fact it has everything which was available on a manual car except airbags & memory seats. it's only done just over 100K miles and, the obvious issues aside, is really nice.

I'd welcome opinions on how to proceed with the engine work or be very glad to hear form anyone with the appropriate bits to fix it. 12 of the 16 valves are bent & one piston ha been removed by the owner's Mercedes indy for inspection. The seller is sure every bit of the car is still there.

Would dropping a 2.5-16 engine be a viable plan? Would installing a 2.5-16 head with a duplex chain work?

Many TIA.
Click to expand...

Why not just buy a second hand 2.3 engine and drop it in?

If it's a nice car then it's best to keep it original.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Similar threads

MeanRedSpider
400d OM656 Turbo issue (E400d All Terrain 2019)
Replies
14
Views
963
Intralia
I
M
2016 (16) MERCEDES BENZ C220D SPORT PREMIUM SALOON DIESEL AUTO WHITE
Replies
0
Views
159
Mercland
M
M
2016 (16) MERCEDES BENZ C220D AMG LINE PREMIUM PLUS COUPE DIESEL AUTO
Replies
0
Views
422
Mercland
M
B
Help! My Anti Theft Alarm is driving me nuts.
Replies
0
Views
484
Borris1954
B
M
2016 (16) MERCEDES BENZ C220D AMG LINE PREMIUM COUPE DIESEL AUTO SILVER
Replies
0
Views
318
Mercland
M
Back
Top Bottom