Is manual into auto possible?

[Garry2102]

Hi, I am new to the forum so a big hello to everyone, I have a pondering thought.
3.5 years ago I decided to buy a manual merc e220 cdi 2013 after owning auto range rovers not changing gear correctly etc. I thought I would go back to a basic manual with simple mechanics…… big mistake, I’m never going to buy a manual merc again. I do like the car it’s self it’s economical, smooth ride, big boot, quick enough an all round good reliable car. My issue which I live with is the clunky gear change and juddery clutch. The car has only 74k on the clock and I changed the clutch at about 54k because of the judder which did cure it for about 6 months and it keeps coming back (the dmf did feel ok). The only way I can stop it juddering (which only does it when cold) is to pull away in 2nd gear slip the clutch for a bit and then it’s fine for a few days, but I don’t like doing that. So that’s the basic outline, so I’m thinking is it possible to fit a 7g tronic g/box in? Has anyone done or tried it and what sort of obstacles are there, like wiring loom is it all there for the selector and box ecu etc, prop lengths or do I just live with it. I don’t want to sell it because I like it and I’ll loose money on depreciation so I would rather put a couple of grand into it to make it a really nice drive. Your thoughts and input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[markjay]

It's doable, but it's major open-heart surgery..... it will be cheaper to sell the car and buy an automatic.

 

[Gazwould]

Top Gear has warned of the manual Merc since the 80's .

 

[Garry2102]

It's doable, but it's major open-heart surgery..... it will be cheaper to sell the car and buy an automatic.

Cheers markjay so there’s a glimmer of light, is it more the electrics that make it complicated rather than the mechanical side if things.

 

[DSM10000]

As above.

Also, where do you source a good gearbox from?

You would need the Transmission control unit, many wiring harnesses, transmission oil cooler system etc then the coding of modules, new pedal box.

It is not economically feasible to do what you suggest.

Sell your car and buy an Automatic version.

 

[AMGeed]

Have you thought what to do with the redundant clutch pedal for a start.

Honestly its fraught with problems that will cost more than just selling your car and buying one with an auto.

 

[Garry2102]

Cheers for the input, I like a challenge but this might be a step to far

 

[markjay]

The only way I would do it is if I had a donor car.

The amount of bits that will need to be transferred across is nigh-on impossible to work out in advance, e.g. various ECUs that will be different between the two, looms, and other bits.

If you're serious, look-up a car - on eBay or at a breakers yard - that is as similar to yours as possible (engine type, year), i.e. a non-runner or accident damage - you don't care about the panels, you can even use a car that was on its roof.

But you'll need space, tools, and time.

 

[Garry2102]

The only way I would do it is if I had a donor car.

The amount of bits that will need to be transferred across is nigh-on impossible to work out in advance, e.g. various ECUs that will be different between the two, looms, and other bits.

If you're serious, look-up a car - on eBay or at a breakers yard - that is as similar to yours as possible (engine type, year), i.e. a non-runner or accident damage - you don't care about the panels, you can even use a car that was on its roof.

But you'll need space, tools, and time.

Your right, the only way to do this is with a donor because there’s always stumbling blocks. I’m very serious about it but also I don’t want to end up with 2 scrap cars because at the end of the day it’s the family car.
I work on bus and coaches every day and I know 1 faulty sensor can cause problems, this is another level. Thanks again.

 

[MJJ]

I am well aware of the bad press manual Mercedes cars get, but I must say I am perfectly happy with my manual E220cdi - even with moon miles on it. Lovely, smooth and accurate gear selection and a very nice feel to the clutch. The foot operated parking brake is less than perfect on a manual car, but the hill-hold feature makes up for that.

As others have said, an auto conversion will be a fair bit of work. Chances are the diff, propshaft, gearbox mount, gearbox ECU, oil cooler, heat shield, brake pedal, centre console trim and loom will need to be changed on top of the gearbox itself. Then you have to find someone willing, and capable of re-coding the car so it knows it is now an Auto.

Fixing the negative symptoms of your transmission would be more sensible in my opinion. My gearbox was very clunky after a gearbox oil change that was not to Mercedes specified oil. Instantly fixed with the correct oil. The juddering could well be the DMF, but £1,000 of clutch/DMF is much cheaper than an auto conversion. If it were me, I would get everything up to temp with a long-ish drive, then do a few really hard, clutch slip launches to get some heat into the clutch pack and see if any surface contamination can be burnt off first.

Martin.

 

[tonysmb]

Technically, it's possible; whether it's worth the cost and hassle depends on you. Granted, MB manual gear changes aren't the best (though I think the foot-operated or electric park-brake working alongside the manual box is the worst feature) but yours clearly isn't right. Have you tried a similar car to see if it's the same as yours?

Good luck if you do decide to go ahead.

 

[Garry2102]

I am well aware of the bad press manual Mercedes cars get, but I must say I am perfectly happy with my manual E220cdi - even with moon miles on it. Lovely, smooth and accurate gear selection and a very nice feel to the clutch. The foot operated parking brake is less than perfect on a manual car, but the hill-hold feature makes up for that.

As others have said, an auto conversion will be a fair bit of work. Chances are the diff, propshaft, gearbox mount, gearbox ECU, oil cooler, heat shield, brake pedal, centre console trim and loom will need to be changed on top of the gearbox itself. Then you have to find someone willing, and capable of re-coding the car so it knows it is now an Auto.

Fixing the negative symptoms of your transmission would be more sensible in my opinion. My gearbox was very clunky after a gearbox oil change that was not to Mercedes specified oil. Instantly fixed with the correct oil. The juddering could well be the DMF, but £1,000 of clutch/DMF is much cheaper than an auto conversion. If it were me, I would get everything up to temp with a long-ish drive, then do a few really hard, clutch slip launches to get some heat into the clutch pack and see if any surface contamination can be burnt off first.

Martin.

Hi, yes the conversion would be a tall order with all the tech on it and I don’t want to ruin the car, Just wish I bought it in auto form. I do the clutch slip as and when required to smooth things out, seems worst on damp cold mornings.
cheers for your advice.

 

[mioba]

Everthing is poiisble, how do you think these cars were built, by humans.
But its a major work and major cost. Its been covered a few times.
Change car - best bet

 

[chesterpiglet]

You said "My issue which I live with is the clunky gear change and juddery clutch. The car has only 74k on the clock and I changed the clutch at about 54k because of the judder which did cure it for about 6 months and it keeps coming back (the dmf did feel ok). The only way I can stop it juddering (which only does it when cold) is to pull away in 2nd gear slip the clutch for a bit and then it’s fine for a few days, but I don’t like doing that". Surely the 1st thing would be to discover why the clutch is juddery after being replaced just 20K ago. Presumably you were happy with the car before it started juddering & for the 6 months after it stopped. Isn't it a bit odd that it cured it only for 6 months & presumably just a few 1000 miles & that pulling away in 2nd whilst slipping the clutch makes it fine for a few days- something is amiss here & is easily fixable in comparison to embarking on changing to an auto box.

 

[190]

I am well aware of the bad press manual Mercedes cars get, but I must say I am perfectly happy with my manual E220cdi - even with moon miles on it. Lovely, smooth and accurate gear selection and a very nice feel to the clutch. The foot operated parking brake is less than perfect on a manual car, but the hill-hold feature makes up for that.

The bad press MB manuals get is outdated history which they will never shake off regardless of how good the gearbox actually gets, I've driven quite a few other makes of manual car and recent MB's are far from being the worst. I find the gearchange light and perfectly acceptable with only one fault, 1st gear is ridiculously low, even to the extent that the owners manual recommends that you start off in 2nd on the flat. I believe the combination of this very low 1st gear ratio and the DMF is not helping with the OP's juddering. With care I can start off in 1st smoothly but unless it's a hill start I use 2nd as MB recommend. I'm at 72K on the original clutch and DMF.

 

[Garry2102]

The bad press MB manuals get is outdated history which they will never shake off regardless of how good the gearbox actually gets, I've driven quite a few other makes of manual car and recent MB's are far from being the worst. I find the gearchange light and perfectly acceptable with only one fault, 1st gear is ridiculously low, even to the extent that the owners manual recommends that you start off in 2nd on the flat. I believe the combination of this very low 1st gear ratio and the DMF is not helping with the OP's juddering. With care I can start off in 1st smoothly but unless it's a hill start I use 2nd as MB recommend. I'm at 72K on the original clutch and DMF.

Yes I agree 1st is low and that would exaggerate the judder, it will pull away quite happily in 2nd on the flat as well as also it has a twin friction plate clutch. Cheers.

 

[Numair Aidroos]

I am well aware of the bad press manual Mercedes cars get, but I must say I am perfectly happy with my manual E220cdi - even with moon miles on it. Lovely, smooth and accurate gear selection and a very nice feel to the clutch. The foot operated parking brake is less than perfect on a manual car, but the hill-hold feature makes up for that.

As others have said, an auto conversion will be a fair bit of work. Chances are the diff, propshaft, gearbox mount, gearbox ECU, oil cooler, heat shield, brake pedal, centre console trim and loom will need to be changed on top of the gearbox itself. Then you have to find someone willing, and capable of re-coding the car so it knows it is now an Auto.

Fixing the negative symptoms of your transmission would be more sensible in my opinion. My gearbox was very clunky after a gearbox oil change that was not to Mercedes specified oil. Instantly fixed with the correct oil. The juddering could well be the DMF, but £1,000 of clutch/DMF is much cheaper than an auto conversion. If it were me, I would get everything up to temp with a long-ish drive, then do a few really hard, clutch slip launches to get some heat into the clutch pack and see if any surface contamination can be burnt off first.

Martin.

Best answer.

 

[Garry2102]

You said "My issue which I live with is the clunky gear change and juddery clutch. The car has only 74k on the clock and I changed the clutch at about 54k because of the judder which did cure it for about 6 months and it keeps coming back (the dmf did feel ok). The only way I can stop it juddering (which only does it when cold) is to pull away in 2nd gear slip the clutch for a bit and then it’s fine for a few days, but I don’t like doing that". Surely the 1st thing would be to discover why the clutch is juddery after being replaced just 20K ago. Presumably you were happy with the car before it started juddering & for the 6 months after it stopped. Isn't it a bit odd that it cured it only for 6 months & presumably just a few 1000 miles & that pulling away in 2nd whilst slipping the clutch makes it fine for a few days- something is amiss here & is easily fixable in comparison to embarking on changing to an auto box.

Hi, let's say I have accepted it being a manual. After owning it for a while I realised that mercs aren't really suited as manuals, but when the juddering started occasionally that was just one more negative for me. I think it's the DMF but don't want to put anyone money into the manual part of things, I'll live with it as other people have changed everything and the problem has come back later on down the line. As people have said I don't think doing the conversion is a wise idea and costly. Thanks Garry.

 

[suty455]

I am well aware of the bad press manual Mercedes cars get, but I must say I am perfectly happy with my manual E220cdi - even with moon miles on it. Lovely, smooth and accurate gear selection and a very nice feel to the clutch. The foot operated parking brake is less than perfect on a manual car, but the hill-hold feature makes up for that.

As others have said, an auto conversion will be a fair bit of work. Chances are the diff, propshaft, gearbox mount, gearbox ECU, oil cooler, heat shield, brake pedal, centre console trim and loom will need to be changed on top of the gearbox itself. Then you have to find someone willing, and capable of re-coding the car so it knows it is now an Auto.

Fixing the negative symptoms of your transmission would be more sensible in my opinion. My gearbox was very clunky after a gearbox oil change that was not to Mercedes specified oil. Instantly fixed with the correct oil. The juddering could well be the DMF, but £1,000 of clutch/DMF is much cheaper than an auto conversion. If it were me, I would get everything up to temp with a long-ish drive, then do a few really hard, clutch slip launches to get some heat into the clutch pack and see if any surface contamination can be burnt off first.

Martin.

Not sure if its fitted to manuals I know it is on Skoda Superbs which use many of the same ECUs but if your stopped at lights in gear press hard on the brake sharply and it should say Hold in the dash as you release the clutch it will release the brakes again, its a feature on most Mercs since mid 2000s, better than hill start as it holds until you set off rather than the 6 seconds or so

 

[BigJase88]

Unfortunately you did not change the DMF and this is the route cause of your judder