M157 ticking / tapping

[AlexM]

Hi All,

For some time, my E63 has had an intermittent ticking / tapping noise from the driver's side bank. It tends to sound at it's worst when the engine has been run up to temperature, and then left to stand for a while (say 30 minutes) but it is inconsistent, i.e. it's sometimes there sometimes not. When it is present, it sounds really pretty loud outside of the car and is also audible from the inside.

It becomes less apparent at about 1500rpm, and I think it happens less after the engine has been run hard. Is it likely to be a hydraulic tappet that is blocked or leaking?. Or possibly a rocker arm?.

It sounds exactly like this:

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- fast forward to 25 secs

I'm going to have to take it in, I think, as it's getting progressively worse. I have done so in the past and it has been returned with no fault found. Can I get a TIPS case raised? Is there a risk of accelerated wear to the camshaft, valve or rocker if there is excessive clearance and one component is smacking into another causing a knocking noise?.

Regards,
Alex

 

[sjmaxwell]

I get that on mine! Does it drop when you put it in drive? I have raised it with Mercedes over a year ago and when it was in for its service last month I asked for an update - none available so I would say raise it and see if something progresses now there are at least two of us reporting It

 

[grober]

Thinking of buying this E63 estate post 9

 

[sjmaxwell]

Thinking of buying this E63 estate post 9

No it’s not that I’m afraid and I told Dave about that issue having experienced it on two E63[emoji16]


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[AlexM]

Thinking of buying this E63 estate post 9

Sadly not that problem for me either - my car has had the non-return valve and modified chain tensioners fitted. The timing chain produced a brief noise for a couple of seconds after startup.

 

[AlexM]

I get that on mine! Does it drop when you put it in drive? I have raised it with Mercedes over a year ago and when it was in for its service last month I asked for an update - none available so I would say raise it and see if something progresses now there are at least two of us reporting It

Maybe a little - volume is slightly higher when idle speed is higher and slightly quieter when lower. It does seem to be go at around 1500rpm - not sure when the variable oil pressure from the pump kicks up a gear?

 

[grober]

The other thing that's often cited as the cause of engine noise in these direct injection engines are the injectors??

 

[AlexM]

The other thing that's often cited as the cause of engine noise in these direct injection engines are the injectors??

Not an injector noise either, I'm afraid... more of a sort of 'dock, dock, dock' than a 'tic, tic, tic'. I'm going to try to get a high quality sound recording.

 

[merc85]

Does sound like a sticking lifter, is it any better after a oil change? is the oil level correct?

 

[AlexM]

Oil level is at maximum. It did seem to improve marginally when the oil was last changed, but the noise returned quickly. If a lifter sticks, does that mean it is blocked? do they have a non-return valve that sticks open causing them to collapse?.

The lifters are cheap (around £7) but you need 32 to do them all and its a head-off job?

 

[merc85]

Any of the above, could be getting blocked/worn, or oil pressure issues id presume.

Taken from wiki below

in the case of overhead camshafts, via direct contact with the valve stem or rocker arm.
Oil under constant pressure is supplied to the lifter via an oil channel, through a small hole in the lifter body. When the engine valve is closed (lifter in a neutral position), the lifter is free to fill with oil. As the camshaft lobe enters the lift phase of its travel, it compresses the lifter piston, and a valve shuts the oil inlet. Oil is nearly incompressible, so this greater pressure renders the lifter effectively solid during the lift phase.

As the camshaft lobe travels through its apex, the load is reduced on the lifter piston, and the internal spring returns the piston to its neutral state so the lifter can refill with oil. This small range of travel in the lifter's piston is enough to allow the elimination of the constant lash adjustment.

Pretty sure the heads wouldn't have to come off, just the Camshafts out, but this may involve removal of the Timing chains, Certainly way above my skill set on a m157 lol.

 

[sturgeon]

Is an alternative oil viscosity specified for the engine? Might be worth a try if there is.

 

[AlexM]

I've only ever seen 5w40 oil specified for this engine

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[Codger49]

This is MB's Fluids reference info:

Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids: Overview Sheets

Sheet 223.2 gives MB spec 229.5 for a M157 engine, sheet 229.5 shows oils of 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W40 viscosities.

I always use Mobil 1 0W-40 and believe it is often recommended for AMG engines.

However, I am not sure whether the oil being more fluid at lower temperature will resolve your issue. It may do if flow rate through small orifices is involved.

 

[AlexM]

This is MB's Fluids reference info:

Mercedes-Benz Specifications for Operating Fluids: Overview Sheets

Sheet 223.2 gives MB spec 229.5 for a M157 engine, sheet 229.5 shows oils of 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W40 viscosities.

I always use Mobil 1 0W-40 and believe it is often recommended for AMG engines.

However, I am not sure whether the oil being more fluid at lower temperature will resolve your issue. It may do if flow rate through small orifices is involved.

Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought only the 5w-40 weight 229.5 oils are approved for the M157?. If the lifters are bleeding down then maybe a lighter oil might make matters worse, but if that were the case I'd expect the tapping to be worse when cold but the reverse seems to be true.

 

[grober]

http://autocats.ws/manual/sdmedia/mediadb/mb_Acrobat/einf/m157/2010_09_001_002_en.pdf
on the M157
And this video 2mins 50 in which shows the hydraulically adjusted cam follower rocker arms with a central roller. This is slightly different from the direct busket hydraulic tappets as shown above. Where it might be relevant is that these central roller bearings can wear and cause tappet noise

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[zenman63]

Mine rattles when hot start the same just for 1-2 seconds
I topped the oil up and started hot and it was silent so guess it’s oil leak down.


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[AlexM]

Hi,

It's strang. I think it is more likely to be the tappets than the rollers in the rockers as it comes and goes. Frustratingly, I can't get a good recording as it seems to have cleared up temporarily. I've noticed that getting the engine fully up to temperature and revving it out often makes it quieten down for a while. Maybe I need to drive it for 50 miles at 5krpm more often.

Seriously though, I'd like to get it fixed..

Regards,
Alex

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[Petrol Pete]

Could a (dreaded) oil flush help before getting the spanners out ? then change the oil for the 'heaviest' recommended. Just a thought.

 

[AlexM]

I might be tempted to try an additive /cleaner and then drop the oil out in case it is varnish or gunge in a lifter that might be shifted

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